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MQL5.community Payment System

6 July 2011, 18:50
MetaQuotes Software Corp.
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Introduction

Internal payment system was initially created in MQL5.community for payment of fees to authors of Articles. But the community's life does not stay still, and plenty of services, useful for traders and implying commodity-money relations between two parties, has emerged on the web-site since the launch of the payment system:

  • Market — A store of applications written in MQL4 and MQL5 languages.
  • Signals — Selling trade signals at a subscription fee with monitoring trade results.
  • Virtual Hosting — A native solution for twenty 24/7 failure-free operation of your MetaTrader trading terminals.
  • Freelance — A meeting point for traders and MQL4/MQL5 developers.
  • MQL5 Cloud Network — Buying and selling free computational power of Strategy Tester agents to organize distributed computing.

The most popular payment systems WebMoney and PayPal are integrated for deposit and withdrawal. U.S. dollars are used as the currency unit. Eventually we implemented other ways of depositing to MQL5.community account: these are common plastic cards (CommerceGate), handy and rapid system not requiring additional confirmation (Neteller), and a solution oriented towards users from China (Netbanx).

Traders can also use MQL5 coupons to pay for products and services as well as to deposit funds to their accounts on the website. The coupons are distributed by some brokers among their clients for free.

The MQL5.community web-site offers you not only unique fee-based services but also an opportunity to make profit. In this article we will thoroughly discuss all the question related to the MQL5.community payment system. You'll find out how to deposit and withdraw money from system, learn about security of operations, and discover different ways of earning and spending at MQL5.community.

  1. Security of Operations
  2. Deposit to Account
  3. Withdraw from Account
  4. How to Earn at MQL5.community
  5. How to Spend at MQL5.community
  6. Paying for services and depositing funds to an MQL5 account using coupons


1 Security of Operations

Everyone knows that any actions with real money have to be secure. All the operations in user profile (including payments) are carried out using a secure connection to the https://login.mql5.com domain over the SSL protocol. This domain name is secured with certificate issued by COMODO CA Limited.

All critical operations are confirmed by SMS received to the mobile phone number, specified in the "Security" section of your profile. When saving mobile number in user profile, it is confirmed with verification code.

Valid mobile phone number with short message service (SMS) is the prerequisite for withdrawing money from the MQL5.community payment system!

Security settings of MQL5.community profile

Limited withdrawal is another level of security. You can withdraw only once per 24 hours and no more than 500 USD.


2. Deposit to Account

MQL5.community users can deposit to their accounts in several different ways. However, withdrawal is possible for quite a few of them! In addition, the fraud protection system does not allow to transfer funds from one payment system to another using the MQL5.community website as an intermediary.

Money can only be withdrawn via WebMoney, PayPal or ePayments and up to the amount of your earnings.

You can only spend funds deposited via other payment systems, withdrawal is not allowed. Please contact us via Service Desk in case of wrong deposit.

Regardless of the particular payment system, prior to beginning of deposit to your MQL5.community account you are required to do as follows:

1 Log in to MQL5.community, open your "Profile" and go to the "Payments" section.

The "Payments" section in a MQL5.community user profile

2. In menu of this section select "Deposit to account".

Depositing to account

3. Further you need to select one of several supported payment systems and click the button.

Supported payment systems for deposit

There is also an alternative way to open the deposit page from any page of MQL5.community web-site. To do this, hover the mouse cursor over your profile in the right upper corner and select "Deposit to account".

Fast link to MQL5.community deposit page

Next, we consider step by step instructions on how to deposit funds using each payment system.


2.1. Deposit via WebMoney

WebMoney is the international electronic payment system working since 1997. You can find detailed information on how to register in the system, create Z-purse (US dollar equivalent) and deposit it in the reference materials of this resource. We will not dwell on these stages, mentioning only the most necessary.

To deposit to MQL5.community via WebMoney you need a Z-purse with enough money. Consider example of depositing via WebMoney.

1 Open the deposit page and select WebMoney clicking the button.

Depositing an account via WebMoney

2. After that you will be offered two options:

  • Automatic deposit to your account. This is the quickest and most convenient way. Specify an amount and click Deposit button.

    Automatic deposit to your account via WebMoney

    Confirm the desired amount, and then the standard WebMoney Wizard will open, where you have to select the payment method and to confirm the money transfer.

    Authorization in WebMoney payment system

    With automatic depositing, money are transferred instantly.

  • Manual deposit to your account. If for any reason you have difficulties with automatic depositing, you can do it manually. To do this, send the desired amount to Z-purse Z451440065600 any way you like.

    In case of manual deposit in the payment comment you must specify the text string of the following type: #XXXXXXX - MQL5 deposit account, where #XXXXXXX is a unique code automatically created for your account (for example, #1234567 - MQL5 deposit account).

    Z-purse number and comment with unique code - these are two key parameters used to process your transfer by robot within one hour.

3. To verify successful money transfer, open your "Profile" and then go to the "Payments" section. Current balance will be displayed on the right side of the section menu.

Current balance of MQL5.community account

The "Payments" section will always offer your complete payments history (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). As for WebMoney deposit the sender will be robot MQL5 WebMoney Accountant, and the recipient will be your first name and last name (or login if your name is not specified). The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing account via WebMoney

4. Now you can spend available funds in your discretion. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.


2.2. Deposit via PayPal

PayPal is the largest electronic payment system in the world. It is easy to use and has a high level of transactions security.

To deposit to MQL5.community via PayPal you need to register in PayPal and bind your account to either Visa or MasterCard plastic card. Learn more about these procedures in PayPal Help Center.

You should have enough money on your bank account with regard to commission. Conversion of your bank account currency into U.S. dollars is performed automatically according to bank's rate.

E-mail address is used as the identifier in the PayPal system. This must be the same address as specified on "Security" page.

Consider example of depositing at MQL5.community via PayPal.

1 Open the deposit page and select PayPal clicking the button.

Depositing an account via PayPal

2. Specify the amount and click "Deposit.

Automatic deposit to your account via WebMoney

3. In the standard PayPal wizard you must authorize and confirm the debiting from your bank account.

Authorization in PayPal payment system

With automatic deposit money are transferred instantly.

4. The "Payments" section will always offer your complete payments history (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). As for PayPal deposit the sender will be robot MQL5 PayPal Accountant, and the recipient will be your first name and last name (or login if your name is not specified), the operation column will contain e-mail address used to log in to PayPal. The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing account via PayPal

5. Now you can spend available funds in your discretion. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.


2.3. Deposit Using Bank Card via CommerceGate

Warning! This way of depositing to your account is intended only for buying products and for paying for services at MQL5.community, and does not allow withdrawing from your account.

If you are going to withdraw money from your account in the future, you must deposit to your account via PayPal or WebMoney.

The CommerceGate payment system allows you to deposit to your MQL5.commmunity account using well known credit and debit cards issued by various payment systems (Visa, MasterCard, Maestro, Discover Network, Diners Club, JCB and other). This is the simplest and most familiar method of payment on the Internet, which does not require any additional registrations or accounts.

Let's consider an example of depositing at MQL5.community via CommerceGate.

1 Open the deposit page and select CommerceGate clicking the button.

Depositing an account via CommerceGate

2. Specify the amount in US dollars you want to deposit, then confirm your payment.

Automatic deposit to your account via CommerceGate

3. After that you will be redirected to secure CommerceGate page, where you have to specify your details and your card data. Confirm charging your bank account. In case of successful transaction, money are transferred instantly.

Authorization in CommerceGate system

If your bank account is not a dollar account, currency will be converted automatically.

4. The "Payments" section will always offer your complete payments history (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). As for CommerceGate deposit the sender will be robot MQL5 CommerceGate Accountant, and the recipient will be your first name and last name (or login if your name is not specified), the operation column will contain the first 6 and last 4 digits of your bank card number, as well as the card holder name in brackets. The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing account via CommerceGate

5. Now you can spend available funds in your discretion. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.


2.4. Deposit via Neteller payment system

Warning! This way of depositing to your account is intended only for buying products and for paying for services at MQL5.community, and does not allow withdrawing from your account.

If you are going to withdraw money from your account in the future, you must deposit to your account via PayPal or WebMoney.

Neteller is a payment system distinctive due to instant money transfer without additional confirmation, availability for most countries of the world, and affordable pricing plans for money transfer. You can open an account in all main currencies of the world. Working with the NETELLER system is convenient and secure thanks to the use of password and security code (Secure ID). To add funds to an MQL5.com account it is enough to enter the Secure ID, but not the password used to access your Neteller account.

Let's consider an example of depositing at MQL5.community via Neteller.

1 Open the deposit page and select Neteller clicking the button.

Depositing an account via Neteller

2. Specify the amount in US dollars, Neteller account (e-mail address or account identifier), and secure ID.

Amount, Neteller account, and Secure ID

Secure ID as a password provides an additional level of security and is a distinctive feature of the Neteller payment system. To obtain this secure ID you need to authorize in Neteller system and pass a simple retrieval procedure via e-mail.

If your bank account is not a dollar account, Neteller will convert currency automatically.

Money are instantly transferred to your MQL5.community account after payment confirmation.

3. The "Payments" section will always offer your complete payments history (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). As for Neteller deposit the sender will be robot MQL5 Neteller Accountant, and the recipient will be your first name and last name (or login if your name is not specified), the operation column will contain your MQL5.community account. The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing account via Neteller

4. Now you can spend available funds in your discretion. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.


2.5. Deposit via Netbanx payment system

Warning! This way of depositing to your account is intended only for users from China.

It is intended only for buying products and for paying for services at MQL5.community, and does not allow withdrawing from your account. If you are going to withdraw money from your account in the future, you must deposit to your account via PayPal or WebMoney.

Netbanx is an online payment aggregator supporting China UnionPay system. Netbanx allows clients of Chinese banks to transfer funds and deposit to their MQL5 accounts.

Let's consider an example of depositing at MQL5.community via Netbanx.

1 Open the deposit page and select Netbanx clicking the button.

Depositing an account via Netbanx

2. Specify the amount in US dollars you want to deposit, then confirm your payment.

Automatic deposit to your account via Netbanx

3. You will be redirected to secure Netbanx page, where you can choose one of supported banks for making a payment. The specified amount will be converted into yuans at the current rate of exchange.

Select a bank for making a payment

4. Select your bank and confirm payment amount in yuans. Then you will be offered to authorize in your personal account of online banking system and confirm your payment.

Example of authorization in one of supported banks

Money are instantly transferred to your MQL5.community account after payment confirmation.

5. The "Payments" section will always offer your complete payments history (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). As for Netbanx deposit the sender will be robot MQL5 Netbanx Accountant, and the recipient will be your first name and last name (or login if your name is not specified), the operation column will contain your MQL5.community account. The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing account via Netbanx

6. Now you can spend available funds in your discretion. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.


2.6. Deposit via ePayments

The ePayments is a system for fast and secure payments, which is available in more than 100 countries. The system provides money transfers to VISA/MasterCard®, WebMoney wallets, bank cards, as well as Bitcoin and Litecoin cryptocurrency wallets. You can additionally order ePayments Prepaid MasterCard® card, using which you can withdraw cash at ATMs, as well as pay for goods and services in stores and online.

To deposit money to MQL5.community via ePayments, you need an e-Wallet with a proper deposit amount on it. Here is an example of depositing money to an MQL5.community account via ePayments.

1 Open the deposit page, click Deposit and select ePayments.

Deposit via ePayments

2. Specify the amount and click Deposit.

Automatic deposit via ePayments

3. You are redirected to a secure ePayments page containing payment details, where you need to specify your login and password.

Login to the ePayments system

4. Once you have logged in, specify the US dollar account of your ePayments wallet from which you want to transfer money and enter the individual payment password that you created during registration on ePayments.

Confirmation of money transfer from the ePayments wallet

The payment password provides an additional level of security for your payments via ePayments: the system requests a new combination of digits for every confirmation. Money are instantly transferred to your MQL5.community account after payment confirmation.

4. The "Payments" provides a complete history of your payments (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). For deposit operations via ePayments, the sender is the robot MQL5 ePayments Accountant, and the recipient is your first name and last name (or login if your name is not available), the operation column contains your MQL5.community login. The amount will be displayed in blue.

Payments history: depositing via ePayments

5. Now you can spend available funds on your own. Read more about this later in the How to Spend at MQL5.community section of this article.

2.7. Deposit via Skrill

Skrill electronic payment system allows financial operations using cards and bank transfers. Two-factor authentication and PIN code are available for your account protection. Transferred fund limits can be increased by identity verification procedures. You should have an account in the system to use it.

1. Open the deposit page and select Skrill system by clicking the appropriate button.

2. Specify the amount you want to deposit and click "Deposit to account".


3. Connection to the service is established, you are prompted to log in.


4. After logging in to the system, a window containing your current balance in Skrill system and the amount you want to transfer to your MQL5.community account appears. Click "Pay now" to confirm your payment.


5. The "Payments" section provides a complete history of your payments (date, number and type of operation, the sender, the recipient and the amount of credits). When depositing funds via Skrill, your email address specified in the Skrill system is set as the sender, while your first and last names (or login if your name is not available) are set as the recipient. Your MQL5.community account is specified in the operation column and the amount of funds is displayed in blue.


3. Withdraw from Account

Warning: there is a set of conditions which might prevent withdrawal.

The problem The solution
No earned money on the account Start earning with MQL5.community services
Withdrawal is allowed not more often than once per twenty-four hours Wait for twenty-four hours and try withdrawal again
No Verified User status Register as a seller
Financial operations are blocked Please contact Service Desk to solve this problem

MQL5.community users can deposit to their accounts in several different ways. However, withdrawal is possible for quite a few of them! In addition, the fraud protection system does not allow to transfer funds from one payment system to another using the MQL5.community website as an intermediary.

Money can only be withdrawn via WebMoney, PayPal or ePayments and up to the amount of your earnings.

You can only spend funds deposited via other payment systems, withdrawal is not allowed. Please contact us via Service Desk in case of wrong deposit.

Regardless of the particular payment system, prior to beginning of withdrawal from your MQL5.community account you are required to do as follows:

1. Log in to MQL5.community, open your "Profile" and go to the "Payments" section.

The "Payments" section in a MQL5.community user profile

2. In menu of this section select "Withdraw from account".

Withdrawing from an account

3. Further you need to select payment system for withdrawal: WebMoney, PayPal or ePayments.

Select payment system for withdrawal

Please keep in mind that when you withdraw from your account, the payment system charges a commission!

There is also an alternative way to open the withdrawal page from any page of MQL5.community web-site. To do this, hover the mouse cursor over your profile in the right upper corner and select "Withdrawal from account".

Fast link to MQL5.community withdrawal page

Next, we consider step by step instructions on how to withdraw funds using the WebMoney and PayPal payment systems.


3.1. Withdraw via WebMoney

Important: Withdrawing from MQL5.community payment system has limitations.

Consider example of withdrawing from MQL5.community via WebMoney.

1 Open the withdrawal page, make sure that you can withdraw from your account, and select WebMoney.

Withdrawing from an account via WebMoney

2. Specify the amount to withdraw (with regard to 0.8% commission) and Z-purse to which you want to transfer money, then click "Withdraw."

Amount to withdraw with regard to commission of WebMoney and Z-purse

3. Confirm the withdrawal with code that you will receive via SMS to your mobile phone number specified in your profile. In the payments history, your Z-purse will be indicated in operation type, the sender will be your first name and last name (or login if name is not specified), and the recipient - robot-user MQL5 WebMoney Accountant. The amount will be displayed in red.

Payments history: withdrawing from an account via WebMoney

Warning! SMS confirmation is required only for each new Z-purse. All Z-purses to which you've successfully withdrawn money become trusted. The first Z-purse from which you have deposited money to your account also becomes trusted one, provided that the user previously had no financial operations.

To withdraw from a trusted Z-purse, specify the amount and select Z-purse from the drop-down list. SMS confirmation is not required in this case.

Please note that withdrawal can only be made using the exact same method that you used to add funds to your account. Transferring money from one international payment system to another is prohibited!


3.2. Withdraw via PayPal

Important: Withdrawing from MQL5.community payment system has limitations. Currently, receiving money via PayPal is supported not for all countries. Be sure to check this out on PayPal website.

Let's consider an example of withdrawing from MQL5.community via PayPal.

1 Open the withdrawal page, make sure that you can withdraw from your account, and select PayPal.

Withdrawing from an account via PayPal

2. Specify the amount to withdraw (with regard to 2% commission) and your e-mail you're using to authorize in PayPay, then click "Withdraw."

Amount to withdraw with regard to commission of PayPal

Make sure that the country your PayPal account is registered in is allowed to receive money! You can find more information about types of PayPal services supported for your country on the PayPal website.

3. Confirm the withdrawal with code that you will receive via SMS to your mobile phone number specified in your profile. In the payments history, your PayPal account will be indicated in operation type, the sender will be your first name and last name (or login if name is not available), and the recipient - robot-user MQL5 WebMoney Accountant. The amount will be displayed in red.

Payments history: withdrawing from an account via PayPal

Warning! SMS confirmation is required only for each new PayPal account. All PayPal accounts, to which you've successfully withdrawn money, become trusted. The first PayPal account from which you have deposited money to your account also becomes trusted one, provided that the user previously had no financial operations.

To withdraw from a trusted PayPal account, specify the amount and select PayPal login from the drop-down list. SMS confirmation is not required in this case.

Please note that withdrawal can only be made using the exact same method that you used to add funds to your account. Transferring money from one international payment system to another is prohibited!


3.3. Withdraw via ePayments

Important: Withdrawing from MQL5.community payment system has limitations.

Here is an example of withdrawing money from an MQL5.community account via ePayments.

1 Open the withdrawal page, make sure that you can withdraw from your account, and select ePayments.

Withdrawal via ePayments

2. Specify the amount you want to withdraw and your ePayments wallet, to which you want to transfer the money. Then click "Withdraw".

Amount to withdraw and e-Wallet

3. Confirm the withdrawal with code that you will receive via SMS to your mobile phone number specified in your profile. In the history of payments, your ePayments wallet is indicated in the operation type field, the sender is your first name and last name (or login if name is not available), and the recipient is the robot-user MQL5 ePayments Accountant. The amount is displayed in red.

Payments history: withdrawing from an account via ePayments

Important: you can withdraw money to ePayments wallets without commission.
Attention! SMS confirmation is only required for new ePayments wallets. All wallets, to which you have successfully withdrawn money, become trusted. The ePayments wallet from which you made the first money transfer to the system, is also added to the trusted list provided that you had no financial operations before that.

To withdraw from a trusted ePayments wallet, specify the amount and select an ePayments wallet from the drop-down list. SMS confirmation is not required in this case.

Note that withdrawal can only be made using the exact same method that you used to add funds to your account. Transferring money from one international payment system to another is prohibited!


4. How to Earn at MQL5.community

You can increase your balance at MQL5.community account not only by depositing, but also by doing some work! The following services are available for this purpose.

  • Freelance. If you are an MQL5 developer and feel yourself able to write and sell MQL5 programs, you can find a job on a competitive basis in the Jobs section. This service is completely safe for both involved parties. The customer and the programmer are secured from each other's unfair actions throughout the whole period of joint work. And in case of any disputable situation, service administration is ready to assume the role of the Arbitrator.

  • Articles. By your own initiative, you can become an author of articles on various subjects related to MQL5 programming language and automated trading systems. Articles fees start at 200 USD, and the final cost depends on how vital your article will be to the community members, according to editors choice. You can find details in the Become an Author at MQL5.com! topic in our forum.

  • Market. Here, authors of MQL4/MQL5 applications can sell their programs to other MQL5.community members. Market is based on the similar principle as mobile application stores. To sell in Market, you have to register as a seller and place your applications in the market.

  • Signals. Do you have a proven trading strategy? You can sell not an Expert Advisor itself, but trading signals that it generates. Thus, you can always tweak it according to changing market, without disclosing all the details.

  • MQL5 Cloud Network. Most of the CPU time is spent in vain, but you can rent it out for a small fee. Simply install remote testing agents and allow them to participate in MQL5 Cloud Network. You can withdraw earned money or spend them at Market, subscribe to Signals or make an order in Freelance.


5. How to Spend at MQL5.community

We will conclude this article by describing how you can spent money at MQL5.community.

  • Freelance. If you have a trading strategy, but you don't know how to program in MQL4/5, you can use this service to get a simple, controllable and safe opportunity to find a developer, who will implement your idea as a finished program. Top 10 developers (ranked by number of completed works) are regularly published on the Jobs service main page. There you can easily find the best candidate.

  • Market. This is one of the most attractive MQL5.community services in terms of trader. Here you can buy (and in some cases - download for free) ready to use MQL5-programs: Expert Advisors, indicators, control panels, etc. For your convenience, the Market service is integrated into MetaTrader 4 and MetaTrader 5 client terminals. Just authorize at MQL5.community, and you'll be able to purchase directly through the MetaTrader user interface.

  • Signals. If you don't own a profitable trading system, you can join successful traders. While receiving trade signals from monitored accounts with a good history and performing deals by these signals, you are risking less than trading on your own without a proven strategy. For beginners, it is often the easiest way to invest their venture capitals.

  • MQL5 Cloud Network. If your own tester agents aren't enough for you or you need to carry out optimization in a tight schedule, you can rent idle capacity of other MQL5.community members.

  • Virtual Hosting. You can pay for virtual hosting services of your MetaTrader trading terminals by funds on your MQL5.community account. Find more information in the article How to Prepare a Trading Account for Migration to Virtual Hosting.


6. Paying for services and depositing funds to an MQL5 account using coupons

Coupons are special means of payment for the MQL5.community services. They can be used for purchasing signal subscriptions, virtual hosting and Market applications, as well as for depositing funds to an MQL5 account.

Please contact your broker to receive coupons.

There are 4 types of coupons allowing you to pay for Signals, Virtual Hosting and Market products, as well as deposit funds to your MQL5 account. A coupon type is specified in the first part of its code, while its amount is shown in the second one.

  • MARKET-15-CFCB-B7HB-CEFC-C519-72UC — coupon for 15 USD to pay for Market products.
  • SIGNAL-20-IOPX-B1AB-GAPC-62BE — coupon for 20 USD to pay for a signal subscription.
  • HOSTING-10-DSJK-B8AB-CEFC-C399-60BE — coupon for 10 USD to pay for virtual hosting.
  • MONEY-15-2222-7777-8888-3333-2222 — general-purpose coupon for 15 USD used to deposit funds to an MQL5 account.

When depositing funds to your account or paying for a service, select the MQL5 Coupons payment system by clicking the appropriate button:

MQL5 Coupons payment system

Then copy the coupon code to the field and confirm your payment.

Depositing funds to an MQL5 account using a coupon

Coupons have a limited validity period — 1 month from the date of issue. An expiration date is provided with a coupon.

  • When using a coupon, the difference between its amount and the product/service price is not deposited to an MQL5 account. The coupon is considered used. No further payments can be made with it. Select your purchases so that the coupon amount is used in full.
  • A used coupon is not restored if you cancel a virtual hosting rental or a signal subscription.
  • Money deposited to an MQL5 account using a coupon cannot be withdrawn. It can only be spent on products and services.


Translated from Russian by MetaQuotes Software Corp.
Original article: https://www.mql5.com/ru/articles/302

Last comments | Go to discussion (75)
Mohamad Miswan
Mohamad Miswan | 19 Nov 2016 at 06:40
Simon Gniadkowski:

Contact the Service Desk:  Your Service Desk 

Cuong Truong
Cuong Truong | 19 Nov 2016 at 20:48
We need new payment option such as Bitcoin deposit and withdrawal.
talles festa
talles festa | 10 Dec 2016 at 06:10

hi

my question is this: you have  a referral sistem?

thanks

Sugeng Moh Arifin
Sugeng Moh Arifin | 19 Dec 2016 at 12:58
Rohim:

I have try it but i have receive notifications as below :

Your account is banned

You can't add any posts and edit your personal information. You can only post private messages to moderators of this site.

Mladen Rakic
Mladen Rakic | 19 Dec 2016 at 14:13
Sugeng Moh Arifin:
Are you telling that the "Rohim" is your other user name?
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