Traders joking, the beginning - page 24
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newdigital, could you be more specific about why trading at the Ask and Bid (bar 0) is, 'cheating' so to speak?
Attached are the equity curves of one of my Scalpers (10pip, 1:1 r/r) that shows spectacular results in Backtests but performs absymally when forward tested so it clearly is not profitable.
What I want to know is why exactly, so I can stop wasting time on stuff that does not work in reality.
Also, one of the 'tell-tale' sign that an EA's results are bogus seems to be what happens during the last 6-9 months of the backtest - usually the equity curve turns down abruptly. This occurs with all of my 'profitable' EA's unfortunately and I have yet to hear a convincing reason as to why this happens - more specifically, why does an inherently unprofitable EA seem very profitable up until the final months of the test? Anyone who has been using Metatrader for a reasonable period will have noticed this last '6-9 month' problem - note that 1 year ago, you had the same poor results for the last 6-9 months even though this period now shows up as profitable in backtests.....
The idea that tick data gathered realtime over the poorly-performing interval is the reason doesn't stand up as it also occurs when Metatrader is freshly installed. Could it be that all the historical data, apart form the last 6-9 months, that the Brokers supplies is 'artificial', generated in much the same way that the backtester interpolates its tick data? Also, I found that running the same EA, settings etc. on different broker platforms produces almost identical results so the all seem to be supplying the same crappy historical data...
I should have more on this soon as I am in the process of getting my hands on 'quality' historical data.....
newdigital, could you be more specific about why trading at the Ask and Bid (bar 0) is, 'cheating' so to speak?
Attached are the equity curves of one of my Scalpers (10pip, 1:1 r/r) that shows spectacular results in Backtests but performs absymally when forward tested so it clearly is not profitable.
What I want to know is why exactly, so I can stop wasting time on stuff that does not work in reality.
Also, one of the 'tell-tale' sign that an EA's results are bogus seems to be what happens during the last 6-9 months of the backtest - usually the equity curve turns down abruptly. This occurs with all of my 'profitable' EA's unfortunately and I have yet to hear a convincing reason as to why this happens - more specifically, why does an inherently unprofitable EA seem very profitable up until the final months of the test? Anyone who has been using Metatrader for a reasonable period will have noticed this last '6-9 month' problem - note that 1 year ago, you had the same poor results for the last 6-9 months even though this period now shows up as profitable in backtests.....
The idea that tick data gathered realtime over the poorly-performing interval is the reason doesn't stand up as it also occurs when Metatrader is freshly installed. Could it be that all the historical data, apart form the last 6-9 months, that the Brokers supplies is 'artificial', generated in much the same way that the backtester interpolates its tick data? Also, I found that running the same EA, settings etc. on different broker platforms produces almost identical results so the all seem to be supplying the same crappy historical data...
I should have more on this soon as I am in the process of getting my hands on 'quality' historical data.....I am not talking about 'cheating'. That is why I moved those posts to this thread to 'take it easy'.
Nothing wrong in coding on open bar. I know that some coders are coding and there is some financial funds using EA coded on open bar also.
But there are some particularities.
There are very different results for backtesting and forward testing for EAs coded on open bar, or on high/low of the close bar. Sorry I am not a coder. I just experimented for many years and made some conclusion.
Do you know MaChannel by Codersguru? If I remember it was coded on high/low of the close bar (some ma mode or something - don't remember). So, backtesting results do not match forward testing. I don't know why. May be it is something with strategy tester in Metatrader ...
For example I am having very good results with this EA for North Finance broker. Forward testing. Backtesting on same period are completely different. And Codersguru used this EA for last Metaquotes contest and EA did not win: I used North Finance broker and metaquotes used IBFX broker for last contest. And high/low data is very different for NF and IBFX sometimes ... And we got opposite results: IBFX contest was lost and I got very good results for same period of time (I repeated the trades with NF broker as Codersguru and Igorad asked me about it during that time).
If somebody is selling EA based on backtesting results and not telling the people how it was coded (open bar, high low of the bar) so it is not good.
The other example is Firebird. As I see it was coded on close bar, high/low of the close bar and open bar (simultaniously). i am not a coder so it is difficult for me to understand how this EA is selecting the order and which type (close bar, open bar) should be opened in which day of the week. But I know that forward testing results are very diferent from backtesting.
The other case is Brainwashing EAs. Those versions are using iTrend indicator as icustom. And this indicator is showing differently with different broker. May be because of that, may be some other cases, but backtesting and forward testing of this EA is very different. EA was coded on close bar only.
It is nothing with losses. Simple diferently. Not the same (backtesting and forward testing).
The other cases are MTF EAs. There are 2 MTF EAs in elite section. All of them were coded on close bar so that's fine. But if MTF EA was coded on open bar concerning more highier timeframe so the backtesting will not match forward testing.
I only wanted to say that it is very difficult to understand about EAs performance based on backtesting results only because backtesting is not telling the true in many cases. And if the seller is not telling us some particularities (without disclosing the system of course) so backtesting is nothing in this case.
Nothing wrong on open bar coding. I know one coder (he is not a member of our forum yet - he is posting his EAs on metaquotes codebase) and he is coding on open bar only. And there are some very very good ideas about tick indicators, tick MACD, tick MA and so on: i mean indicators to trade on open bar by ticks. And in this case it may be very very good scalpers and other EAs based on open bar.
But it should be mentioned always: coded on close bar, open bar, MTF with open bar for highier timeframe, high/low of the bar and so on.
Otherwise people will be confused and will consider backtesting as useless for all EAs. But backtesting is not useless if we know how it was coded.
And there is some other case.: gaps in data. Especially during the news events. It is not often case but today I found two gaps for august on GBPJPY M1 data when I was checking some indicators for re-paintng. It may be also the reason why backtesting is not the same with forward testing.
But generally backtesting must be the same with forward testing in most of the cases. Shoud be ...
newdigital, thank you for you lengthy response.
What this must mean is that the Backtester simply does not work properly when using 'current prices' to enter trades, particularily for scalping strategies. I spend quite a lot of time coding and have been able to detect no errors with Metatrader while in visual mode when opening trades before the current bar closes. I also have checked and it seems to handle High/Low of the current bar correctly.
Also, one could argue that scalping at the close of bar is doomed to failure as you are working with 'old' prices - even on M1 charts 60 seconds could be viewed as 'ancient' prices when you're looking for 5-10 pips!
Please don't think I am disagreeing with you - I am not! There is something definitely 'wrong' with Metatrader, I just have not been able to find out what it is.......
newdigital, could you be more specific about why trading at the Ask and Bid (bar 0) is, 'cheating' so to speak?
Also, one of the 'tell-tale' sign that an EA's results are bogus seems to be what happens during the last 6-9 months of the backtest - usually the equity curve turns down abruptly. This occurs with all of my 'profitable' EA's unfortunately and I have yet to hear a convincing reason as to why this happens - more specifically, why does an inherently unprofitable EA seem very profitable up until the final months of the test? Anyone who has been using Metatrader for a reasonable period will have noticed this last '6-9 month' problem - note that 1 year ago, you had the same poor results for the last 6-9 months even though this period now shows up as profitable in backtests.....
.....Most of the commercial EAS come out after an EA has done well in the precceding year or two years.The EA trendmasters test the EA on all the brokers .The brokers where the EA performs best on backtests becomes the chosen broker..The E A is optimised for backtests for the last few tears.The buyers buy the EA and use it at different brokers where the performance was inferior and find they start losing money.
Discount all the claims the sellers make and look at the worst performance of the EA AT THE LOWEST PERFORMING BROKER , and if the performance is good buy it.A friend of mine bought an EA from the commercial section ,the Ea makes 1000 pips a year on backtests but the trendmaster EA owner claims it makes 1800 pips.The E A is a similiar copy of an E A available in the Elite forum which costs $100 less .
I test all my EAS on usd/yen and if it performs profitably ,then I consider the EA as robust.In the Elite section Newdigital has very little succes on testing USD/YEN for great results.Usd/yen is not trendy and performs poorly in sideways market...it has very little support and very little resistance
Regards
EL cID
Please don't understand my posts as guide to action.
It is joking thread so I just remember some case.
I go for a walk. There is small computer shop on the right side. I am turning to the right.
Voice from behind: "Don't turn right!".
I am thinking: "That's funny. 20 hours near computer ... i definitely need to sleep". I am turning right.
Voice from behind me: "Don't turn right!".
I stopped.
I am thinking: "it should be policeman. Otherwise why I stopped?
".
I want to turn round to see this guy.
Voice from behind me: "Don't turn round! Dont turn right! Don't stop!"
I asked: "So what to do?"
Voice from behind: "Go straight!".
And what do you think I did? Yes, I turned right!
I just round the house and came to my 'right' street from the other side. And what I see? Many people on very small street. All of them turned right! 
All! It was some road accident and street is very small. And that guy/voice was a policeman. All of the people turned right during the half a day to see "why"!
The same with EAs. If we are telling the people one time only: "Don't buy EA based on backtesting results only" so that's fine. We said it.
If we say about it 100 times so it will be the same as this voice on the street and many people will be interested to know: "why we don't need to buy it? It is very interesting ... we will buy it and we will see".
And they all will turn right.
Most of the commercial EAS come out after an EA has done well in the precceding year or two years.The EA trendmasters test the EA on all the brokers .The brokers where the EA performs best on backtests becomes the chosen broker..The E A is optimised for backtests for the last few tears.The buyers buy the EA and use it at different brokers where the performance was inferior and find they start losing money.
Regards
EL cIDGuess who their GURU and mentor is ...............the leader who teaches about optimisation with different brokers
El Cid
It is joking thread so I just remember some case....
If we say about it 100 times so it will be the same as this voice on the street and many people will be interested to know: "why we don't need to buy it? It is very interesting ... we will buy it and we will see".
And they all will turn right.very nice anecdote ND .. here's another one. This is a real Ad by a system school!
very nice anecdote ND .. here's another one. This is a real Ad by a system school!
As to my anecdote so it is well-known Russian anecdote about the government (Voice from behind) who is telling "do like that" or "don't do like this" and the nation or people who are doing in exact opposite way all the time. Mainly it is the Russian story.
Buy this E A
iT IS GREAYT
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I saw this site strategybarn.com and thier expert does over 1000 pips since July. I emailed the owner and they just put videos up that show it.
Thought I would pass it on since people here have shown me places that I could get good trading material.
No I am not spamming, just trying to help others.
There are so many forum members using double handles on forex factory
No I am not spamming, just trying to help others.
Re: WOW OVER 1000 PIPS per MONTH
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