Level 4 Trade
The first thing you have to ask is when was that level 4 trade? What time was it?
Last high was at (17:30cet on 11-05-06) at 1.8857. From there we had a consolidation mode for more than 13 bars of 30 minutes. It first broke that consolidation at (01:00cet on 12-05) to made a high at 1.8868 (02:00cet). From there another consolidation mode with a low at 1.8822 (04:00cet). And from there up. We broke last high of 1.8868 at 07:30cet. It made a new high at 1.8886. Consolidation mode again with a low at 1.8848, higher that last. And then, mate, at and then, mate, at 09:00cet bar we have the right breakout according to our trading time. It broke 1.8886 and made a high at 1.8911: +25 pips. And from there to 1.8997. that is 111 pips. This is the story. So, you lost because you did no trade within our trading time. Does it mean that you will never lose within CatFX5o trading time. No, it does not.
With level 4 trades we try to follow the trend. Breakouts are riskier. That's why I always stress that we need strength. Look at 09:00cet bat. Do you think it is a weak bar? It opened at 1.8858. I do not remember if once broke it went down to the lows of it. But if it was a lost, we have to accept it and try to reenter.
And now, if there is anybody out there that think I'm able to make a decision, to trade, to place stops, to scale, to monitor and to answer the mails, please, tell me your doctor or the drug you take.
Ok, on the level 4 trade I posted I understand that I got in early on the 7:30cet bar instead of waiting until the 9:00cet bar which would have been within the system trading time window. If we forget about the time factor window in the attached picture and say this set up occurred during the system trading hours what price would you have considered to be the high and at what price would your entry be?
I have placed a white box around the bars I am looking at. On the chart there are 3 horizontal lines, red = point A, light blue = point B and dark blue = point C. Would your entry be when price broke the red line at point A? Would it have been when price broke the light blue line at point B or would you have gotten in when price broke the dark blue line at point C? If we weren’t concerned about it being in our trading time window I would say that all of these entries qualify as level 4 trades? Nina, you mentioned the move needs strength. By strength I was under the impression you meant the StepMA_Stoch histogram was above the 0.04 filter. If we use the StepMA filter of 0.04 then all price moves seem to meet the level 4 requirement. Now I see you’re using the Juice indicator on the 5 minute chart to show strength. If I look at the juice indicator then yes, the move at point C, 9:00cet bar seems to have the most juice (I can’t say I’ve never seen any documentation in CatFx50 about using juice to gauge the strength of a move). Now at what level of juice do you consider it high enough to indicate “strength” of a move? For example, does it need to be above 5? In this case (point C) it looks to be above the 12 level. Please understand, I am not asking these questions to be difficult or argumentative, I just want to understand what an experienced trader considers to be a level 4 trade.
I welcome any feedback on this question.
If we forget about the time factor window in the attached picture and say this set up occurred during the system trading hours what price would you have considered to be the high and at what price would your entry be?
I singled out your comment above because I think strength has lots to do with being in the right market, time-wise.
It is utterly important to trade in the right time period because that is the initial definition of the market. For example, if somebody says "I trade the GBP/USD during the London market," I know instinctively what they are talking about. They are talking about a market that is very strong and super-reactive! One of the most appealing things about the GBP is its dependable and constant volatility. Matter of fact, in that respect it's a better pair to trade than EUR/USD.
See, things happen in markets with lots of action and volume, that will not happen in other markets (read: trading time)
Yeah, I hate having to wake up early to take advantage of it, but there's no other way if I want to trade in a favorable market. Using CatFX50 in other market times may not give you the same results. Again, the example with the GBP/USD: Most folks that trade that pair will work the London market and the morning half of the New York market...so, yes, time is very important.
Right point is dark blue at 1.8887 + spread. It was in our time and it had strength.
Look at the chart, Downunderdave40. It is easy to see the breakout is there.
I talk always about strength. I plotted Juice because it gives what we need when we talk about strength. Bu I could've plotted ADX too.
That juice plotted on TF5 minutes is great. Look at last bars before the breakout: they are yellow and they are low. When we have the breakout, you have a green, long bar and you have it in real time.
The problem here is that if I talk about strength people do not get it. I must say: a long bar, a push, a rush and so on.
With Kalenzo and Igorad, great programmers like ShadowWZ, we were talking a long time ago about juice. I wanted an average and I got that indicator, but it did not work as I wanted. So now we have this New Juice to show strength when we are about to take a level 4 trade. But do not think it is a holy grail.
Sometimes it does not give the right signal and the breakout is good or vice versa.
To be honest moneyline i think we all understand that when we trade this method is very important, but i think what dave is after is clarification of the level 4 trade setup thats all, just so he knows what it is and when he should react to it, so if the experienced traders among you could just look at the "setup" of this trade and give an opinion it might help.
That is the point of my question, which set up(s) would be the correct one(s)? I realise the time period we trade is critical and "yes, I entered into this particular trade 30 minutes too early. That was my mistake and I own that. What I am trying to do now is get the experienced traders to give me their opinion on the level 4 trade set up that I have presented in my previous post. Again, I was under the impression we used the StepMA_Stoch histogram with a filter of +/- 0.04 to indicate the strength of a move, but now I see we can use Juice on the 5 minute chart. So which indicator do most of the experienced traders use to indacate strength of the move, StepMA_Stoch histogram or Juice? Also, if you use juice at what level on the juice scale is it considered "strong juice"?
I just would like to know at wich point A, B or C do you consider this a valid level 4 set up? If a valid set up depends on strength, and if we use the juice indacator to indicate strength then point C would be a valid level 4 set up. If we use the StepMA_Stoch histogram than all 3 would qualify.
These are the points about a level 4 trade I am try to figure out, not what time period I should be trading in.
Sorry if I haven't made myself very clear in my pervious posts.
reaction to bubble post
Hi to all and please exuse me for this post but i could not stand aside.
I would like to say few things to Bubble and others who came here to criticise and provoke :
i am observing Nina system for over 1 month and it works prety good for now
will it work in ranging market ? i don't know but we will see soon
Nina's system is simple ,i traded something like this 2 years ago when i started live forex trading but only with basic indicators.Somwhere in time i lost 70% of my acc. but not because of the system itself,i lost because i was acting as supertrader,like i know everything..i did not folow the system,i traded haoticly and after few big lose i lost confidence in myself as a trader and i kept going down.
Like many of traders i started to switch from system to system,from one charting platform to another,i even try to learn something from those thiefs who are selling systems and indicators for thousend of $ and i did learn few things there but i never found that good indicators like i did found in this forum and in MT4 generaly.
What i am trying to say is that Nina system have good potential,we need to check it over time but the most valuable things here are the INDICATORS.
Just try to trade Nina system without anina,histstepma and nina step_ma ,try with regular indicators and see what you would do--not much i am sure.Some of clasic indicators may work same as Nina's but you dont have colors,arows,dots...it is pure psyhological thing.
Nina (or cats owner ) did good job with this tread,he toolk simple system and found great programmers here Kalenzo , Igorad, ShadowWZ... who made those indicators so we can all take trades much easier and avoid bad entries musch easier.
Trust me, i tried to programm lot of EA's in another charting program but with basic indicators and i tested them ,most with sucess,but i just could not folow those trades or better to say i did not folow my own good systems because of greed,fear etc.Now we have something to back up our trading decisions , to get back our lost confidance or for new traders to start trading easier than i did.
Botom line ,Nina entry levels can be generated using thousend of other systems and calculations and when you look litle deeper it is not so simple like we say,it have good complexity but it is product of good work and it looks good on the chart and give good results.
I am sure many of those 5% good traders dont even need indicators but i do and many of us here do and we got something good here.
I would add one more thing, maybe this system can't make ton of pips like last cople of weeks but i am sure it can't lose and it will always give back high precentage of wins for at least 20 pips and that is fine for me.
I will try to see how those step and nina indicators are calculated when i have the time and if i can read them i will post so we can all have the idea what is in those 'black boxes'.I think it can be good for all of us who trust in this chart setup to get the feeling of what is behind those indicators and maybe one day we would not need them any more.
Once again ,anyone who want to provoke and criticise please go find those whisegys who are selling systems for 5000 or even 10000 $ and do not give nothng much better then we have here (of course lot of stuff here are copies of those expenciv things but i hate those who are selling tools to gold miners)
and ask them to give you live trades statistic.
Again, i am sorry for this big post,my english is not perfect so it toolk me litle more words to try to say what i want.
level 4 trades
It would be a wonderful learning tool if one of the big boys could post level 4 trade breakout levels prior to the start of the trading period. screenshots with lines drawn on them would be even better. you know when you have got a free moment. I think even a couple would be very helpful for newer members to become comfortable with deciding for themselves.
Insofar as posting live trades i think it is for those of us learning amd only playing with demo accounts to post live trades. it is for the senior members to comment and critique.
thanks and some screenshots would be great.
ok nina and a few others have gone over this time and again a LEVEL 4 is nothing more than a breakout strategy if you in an uptrend and all indicators are pointing up and we have consolidation obviously we are looking for a break out to the upside now i have been trading a variation of ninas method since beginning of year i just use 3 step indicators with the 50 ema cross both ninas and mine have be amazingly profitable i havent had a losing week this year so that should tell you something whether you need a trending market or not to make this work just use basic TA along with signals to generate profits with proper money mgmt
Thanks so much for this excellent thread. On the first thread, you said:
Do not buy/sell, for instance, EURUSD because GBPUSD has a signal. Wait for the signal to come in each pair you want to trade.
What does this mean? I am not sure.
Did you mean that only both GBP/USD and EUR/USD has a signal can we make a entry or they are seperately. Or if we just trade the one with signal?
Thanks for your help!
This is getting to be a bit frustrating. I've asked what I think is a simple question and very few people have attempted to the answer the actual question. For those who have given me some feedback like Nina, I've asked some follow up questions ie: about juice. I'm just trying to understand what people see on their charts, like price levels, indicators and why they decide to enter a trade, in this case, the level 4 trade from this past Friday.
I'm very happy for you that you've been able to trade with this system since the begining of the year and haven't had a lossing week, I only wish I could do 50% of what you're doing.
I am here because the CatFx50 system appears to be a very good system and I hope to gain some insight from the more experienced traders. I ask questions because I am truely interested in learning more about the CatFx50 system and how people trade with the system.
Just a thank you to all who have reposnsed to my post about the level 4 trade.