Discussion of article "How to Subscribe to Trading Signals" - page 54

[Forester]

Hello,

I subscribed to the signal <REMOVED>, the provider in a week drained my deposit by 98%. I switched off the terminal in time and closed positions against the market. As a result I lost 20% instead of 98%.

Is there any possibility to unsubscribe from this signal and get my subscription money back? This way, I would be able to subscribe to another signal.

1) As I understand, if I unsubscribe myself, the frozen funds will be transferred to the provider's account?

2) It's not clear if the provider cancels the signal itself. It is written that the provider will not receive them, but it is not written that they will be returned to subscribers. Clarifying question - will the money be returned to subscribers or will it stay with you?

3) Is there a possibility to return money exactly in case of a drain (set a threshold for example 70 - 90% of the deposit)? And return at least frozen funds, i.e. for the last month. This way you will increase the responsibility of signal providers. After all, in this example, the provider has not earned anything on trading for 3 months collected money for subscription, I think about $1000. He made good money, relaxed and started to make super risky rash bets. The result was a drain on subscribers, while he himself is doing quite well. I, for example, have been in a similar situation for the second time and I have become sceptical about subscriptions. And there is no point in keeping such a signal, because with such a failure, it is unlikely to find new subscribers.

[Vladimir Karputov]

elibrarius:

Hello,

I subscribed to the signal <REMOVED>, the provider in a week drained my deposit by 98%. I switched off the terminal in time and closed positions against the market. As a result I lost 20% instead of 98%.

Is there any possibility to unsubscribe from this signal and get my subscription money back? This way, I would be able to subscribe to another signal.

1) As I understand, if I unsubscribe myself, the frozen funds will be transferred to the provider's account?

2) It's not clear if the provider cancels the signal itself. It is written that the provider will not receive them, but it is not written that they will be returned to subscribers. Clarifying question - will the money be returned to subscribers or will it stay with you?

3) Is there a possibility to return money exactly in case of a drain (set a threshold for example 70 - 90% of the deposit)? And return at least frozen funds, i.e. for the last month. This way you will increase the responsibility of signal providers. After all, in this example, the provider has not earned anything on trading for 3 months collected money for subscription, I think about $1000. He made good money, relaxed and started to make super risky rash bets. The result was a drain on subscribers, while he himself is doing quite well. I, for example, have been in a similar situation for the second time and I have become sceptical about subscriptions. And there is no sense to keep such a signal, because with such a failure is unlikely to find new subscribers.

Rules:

V. Order of settlements#

1. All mutual settlements are made in the internal payment system of the MQL5.com website, hereinafter referred to as the Payment System. An account in the Payment System is created for each user of MQL5.community automatically when registering on the MQL5.com website.
2. In order to subscribe to the selected Signals Source, you must have the required amount on your account in the amount of the subscription price.
3. Money can be deposited into the internal Payment System via Gate2Shop, WebMoney, PayPal, NETTELLER and UnionPay. Withdrawal of earned funds is possible only via WebMoney and PayPal.
4. Subscription payment is automatically withdrawn from the Subscriber's account in advance for the whole subscription period at the moment of Subscription registration.
5. The Signals Provider automatically receives the Subscriber's payment for the use of the Signals one week after the end of the subscription period.
6. The payment to the Provider is made after deduction of the Signals service commission of 20%.
7. In case of cancellation of the paid subscription by the Subscriber, the money for it is not refunded.
8. In case of termination of signal broadcasting by the Provider, the Subscribers' reserved funds shall not be transferred to the Provider's account.
9. In case of violation of the rules of use of the Signals service, the Provider's account shall be blocked and financial operations on it shall be terminated.
10. Fraudulent actions and/or falsification of past trading results will lead to blocking of the Provider's account and return of the funds received under the subscription to the buyers.
    

[Forester]

Karputov Vladimir:

Rules:

Yes, I've read all that. So the possibility of refund is only in case of termination of broadcasting by the provider itself?

Point 3 from my message, this is a suggestion. Perhaps it would be useful to add such a clause to your rules; to improve the quality of service, its reliability and popularisation.

[Anton Belyakov]

Hello. Can I subscribe a paid signal to my demo account?

[Vladimir Karputov]

rozivorp:

Hello. Can I subscribe a paid signal to my demo account?

No - as it is prohibited by the Rules of the Signals Service.

[Anton Belyakov]

Karputov Vladimir:
No - as it is prohibited by the Rules of the Signals Service.

What paragraph of the rules prohibits it? I couldn't find it in the rules, that's why I was asking

[Vladimir Karputov]

rozivorp:
What clause in the rules prohibits this? Couldn't find it in the rules, that's why I was asking

You didn't look hard enough:

III. Procedure for creating a Signal and Subscription to it

11. Signals on the basis of real accounts are available only by paid subscription, signals on demo accounts are available only by free subscription.

IV. Subscription to Signals

2. Subscription to Signals created on the basis of demo accounts is prohibited for real accounts....

[Anton Belyakov]

Karputov Vladimir:

That was a bad look:

Appreciation. I agree-bad look. Do I understand correctly that I can subscribe a paid signal to a real cent account? If yes, what lot will be used to copy trades to a cent account at the load on the deposit=100%? The same lot that is set on the provider account?

[Server Muradasilov]

rozivorp:
Thank you. I agree, I wasn't looking hard enough. Do I understand correctly that I can subscribe a paid signal to a real cent account? If yes, then what lot will be used to copy trades to a cent account when the load on the deposit=100%? The same lot that is set on the provider account?

https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/618

Funds management or how to choose the volume of a deal?

The question of how exactly the subscriber's deposit will participate in trading on signals is one of the most important. When solving this problem, we were guided by the same rule as when working on the whole service - maximum protection for each participant of the process. As a result, we can offer a solution that is safe enough for subscribers.

When switching on signals in the terminal and subscribing to one of them, the subscriber has to choose which part of the deposit to allocate for the signals. The alternative was the system of setting the proportion between the position volume of the provider and the subscriber. However, such a system could not ensure safety of the subscriber's deposit. For example, the Provider's deposit is $30 000 and the Subscriber's is $10 000 and the volume proportion 1:1 was chosen. In a situation when the provider would simply wait out losses with a sufficiently large order volume, the subscriber could lose all the money and close at a stopout. Even worse is the situation when the supplier's balance changes unexpectedly (account top-up or withdrawal) while maintaining the previously set volume ratio.

To avoid this, a system of percentage allocation of a part of the deposit, which is given to trading on signals, was chosen. This system is rather complicated technically, as it takes into account deposit currencies, their conversion and leverage.

Let's consider the work of the volume management system on the example:

1. Provider: balance 15 000 USD, leverage 1:100
2. Subscriber1: balance 40 000 EUR, leverage 1:200, deposit utilisation rate 50%
   
3. Subscriber2: balance 5 000 EUR, leverage 1:50, deposit utilisation rate 35%
4. EURUSD = 1.2700
   

Calculation of the ratio of the Provider's and Subscribers' transaction volumes:

1. Balance ratio taking into account the deposit utilisation percentage:
   Subscriber1: (40,000 * 0.5) / 15,000 = 1.3333 (133.33%)
   Subscriber2: (5,000 * 0.35) / 15,000 = 0.1166 (11.66%)
   
2. After correction for leverage:
   Subscriber1: Subscriber1's leverage (1:200) is greater than the Provider's (1:100), so no correction for leverage
   Subscriber2: 0.1166 * (50 / 100) = 0.0583 (5.83%)
3. After correction for exchange rate of deposits at the moment of calculation:
   Subscriber1: 1,3333 * 1,2700 = 1,6933 (169.33%)
   Subscriber2: 0,0583 * 1,2700 = 0,0741 (7.41%)
4. Final percentage after rounding (rounding is done on a staggered basis):
   Subscriber1: 160% or a factor of 1.6
   Subscriber2: 7% or a factorof0.07

Thus, under these conditions, the Provider's transaction of 1 lot will be copied:

- in the account of Subscriber1 in the amount of 160% - a volume of 1.6 lots

- on the account of Subscriber2 in the amount of 7% - in the volume of 0.07 lots.

Be careful not to confuse the percentage of deposit utilisation with the real ratio of transaction volume. In the trading terminal, the percentage of deposit utilisation is set, from which the ratio of transaction volume is calculated. This information is necessarily written to the log and in our example will look like this:

Subscriber1:

2012.11.12 13:33:23 Signal '1277190': percentage for volume conversion selected according to the ratio of balances and leverages, new value 160%

2012.11.12 13:27:55 Signal '1277190': signal provider has balance 15 000.00 USD, leverage 1:100; subscriber has balance 40 000.00 EUR, leverage 1:200

2012.11.12 13:27:54 Signal '1277190': money management: use 50% of deposit, equity limit: 0.00 EUR, deviation/slippage: 1.0 spreads

Subscriber2:

2012.11.12 13:33:23 Signal '1277191': percentage for volume conversion selected according to the ratio of balances and leverages, new value 7%

2012.11.12 13:27:55 Signal '1277191': signal provider has balance 15 000.00 USD, leverage 1:50; subscriber has balance 5 000.00 EUR, leverage 1:50

2012.11.12 13:27:54 Signal '1277191': money management: use 35% of deposit, equity limit: 0.00 EUR, deviation/slippage: 1.0 spreads

[Anton Belyakov]

Server Muradasilov:

https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/618

Funds management or how to choose the volume of a deal?

The question of how exactly the subscriber's deposit will participate in trading on signals is one of the most important ones. When solving this problem, we were guided by the same rule as when working on the whole service - maximum protection for each participant of the process. As a result, we can offer a solution that is safe enough for subscribers.

When switching on signals in the terminal and subscribing to one of them, the subscriber has to choose which part of the deposit to allocate for the signals. The alternative was the system of setting the proportion between the position volume of the provider and the subscriber. However, such a system could not ensure safety of the subscriber's deposit. For example, the Provider's deposit is $30 000 and the Subscriber's is $10 000 and the volume proportion 1:1 was chosen. In a situation when the provider would simply wait out losses with a sufficiently large order volume, the subscriber could lose all the money and close at a stopout. Even worse is the situation when the supplier's balance changes unexpectedly (account top-up or withdrawal) while maintaining the previously set volume ratio.

To avoid this, a system of percentage allocation of a part of the deposit, which is given to trading on signals, was chosen. This system is rather complicated technically, as it takes into account deposit currencies, their conversion and leverage.

Let's consider the work of the volume management system on the example:

1. Provider: balance 15 000 USD, leverage 1:100
2. Subscriber1: balance 40 000 EUR, leverage 1:200, deposit utilisation rate 50%
   
3. Subscriber2: balance 5 000 EUR, leverage 1:50, deposit utilisation rate 35%
4. EURUSD = 1.2700
   

Calculation of the ratio of the Provider's and Subscribers' transaction volumes:

1. Balance ratio taking into account the deposit utilisation percentage:
   Subscriber1: (40,000 * 0.5) / 15,000 = 1.3333 (133.33%)
   Subscriber2: (5,000 * 0.35) / 15,000 = 0.1166 (11.66%)
   
2. After correction for leverage:
   Subscriber1: Subscriber1's leverage (1:200) is greater than the Provider's (1:100), so no correction for leverage
   Subscriber2: 0.1166 * (50 / 100) = 0.0583 (5.83%)
3. After correction for exchange rate of deposits at the moment of calculation:
   Subscriber1: 1,3333 * 1,2700 = 1,6933 (169.33%)
   Subscriber2: 0,0583 * 1,2700 = 0,0741 (7.41%)
4. Final percentage after rounding (rounding is done on a staggered basis):
   Subscriber1: 160% or a factor of 1.6
   Subscriber2: 7% or a factorof0.07

Thus, under these conditions, the Provider's transaction of 1 lot will be copied:

- in the account of Subscriber1 in the amount of 160% - a volume of 1.6 lots

- on the account of Subscriber2 in the amount of 7% - in the volume of 0.07 lots.

Be careful not to confuse the percentage of deposit utilisation with the real ratio of transaction volume. In the trading terminal, the percentage of deposit utilisation is set, from which the ratio of transaction volume is calculated. This information is necessarily written to the log and in our example will look like this:

Subscriber1:

Subscriber2:

Thank you, but I would like to see an answer to my first question: do I understand correctly that paid subscription is available for real cent accounts?