MT4 64 bit is becoming nessery for compatibility with windows 10 and new pcs - page 3

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Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez
5163
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez  
Alain Verleyen:

The topic is not about emulation but about being able to run MT4 on a 64-bit system.

So when he wrote :

I answered : it's not true.

For me, what he said is true. You can run MT4 on a 64 bit OS, but with a virtual machine/emulation (you can call it how you want). Therefore, it's not the same thing like run a native 64 bit application (lower speed, memory limit, etc). Regards.
Alain Verleyen
37287
Alain Verleyen  
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez:
For me, what he said is true. You can run MT4 on a 64 bit OS, but with a virtual machine/emulation (you can call it how you want). Therefore, it's not the same thing like run a native 64 bit application (lower speed, memory limit, etc). Regards.
Of course a 32 bit app is not a 64-bit one. So what ?
Fernando Carreiro
4958
Fernando Carreiro  

I totally agree with @Alain Verleyen, @whroeder1 and @honest_knave! There is no limitation (or handicap) what-so-ever about running MT4 (32-bit) on a 64-bit Windows 7, 8 or 10 or Windows Server 2008, 2012, or 2016 (yes, I have run it personally on all of these).

Plus, there is no such thing as it running as "virtual" or "emulated" or anything of the sort. It simply runs in a different context (extra layer) where the exposed API, Resource Management, etc. are all presented as 32 bit functionality (the code itself, stills runs as native code).

In fact, even Microsoft recommends using 32-bit version of Office on Windows 10, instead of the 64 bit version, because it is uses less resources and is marginally faster.

Conclusion for the OP is, you are just creating a problem where none exists - If you want to use MT4 on Windows 10 (64-bit), just do it. And if it does not work, then consider that it might be a P.I.C.N.I.C. issue!

EDIT: Microsoft does refer to the WOW64 as a "the x86 emulator", but that is an over simplification of what it does and it is mostly to do with the environment in which an application runs in, not the actual execution of its code. It is more akin to a layering of the underlying structure and functionality presented to the 32 bit application. Yes, I understand that can technically be called "emulation", but the word incorrectly invokes a misunderstood vision of what it is actually doing.

Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez
5163
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez  
Fernando Carreiro:

I totally agree with @Alain Verleyen, @whroeder1 and @honest_knave! There is no limitation (or handicap) what-so-ever about running MT4 (32-bit) on a 64-bit Windows 7, 8 or 10 or Windows Server 2008, 2012, or 2016 (yes, I have run it personally on all of these).


Didn't you say that you never agreed with Alain ?? hahaha :0).


I have run MT4 on several 64-bit OS's without any problems, too. But it has limitations (slow speed, memory limit, etc, etc). It's not the same thing like run a native 64-bit application. For a 64-bit OS it's better to use MT5. Otherwise, you will not take advantage of all the capabilities of a 64-bit OS. They are two diferent matters.

Regards.

Fernando Carreiro
4958
Fernando Carreiro  
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez:

Didn't you say that you never agreed with Alain ?? hahaha :0).

I have run MT4 on several 64-bit OS's without any problems, too. But it has limitations (slow speed, memory limit, etc, etc). It's not the same thing like run a native 64-bit application. For a 64-bit OS it's better to use MT5. Otherwise, you will not take advantage of all the capabilities of a 64-bit OS. They are two diferent matters.

Where and when did I say that? I did say that we have had "disputes" and "clashed" on opinions but not that I never agree with Alain.

EDIT: Actually, it was Alain and not me, that said something towards those lines but not in that context that you have portrayed ... Fernando, I will surprise you...I totally agree with you

Slow Speed? Memory Limit? I have never had any application run slower on a 64 bit OS than a 32 bit OS on the same machine. You have to compare "apples" to "apples" and not to "oranges". As for memory limits, how can a 64-bit OS be limiting the memory of a 32 bit application? It is limited by its own 32-bit address space, not because the 64-bit OS is limiting it!

If you are saying that the 64-bit version of a application can be superior to a 32-bit version (emphasis on "can be", because it is not necessarily always the case) because it has at its disposal a larger address space, CPU functionality, etc. - then yes, but no one is disputing that.

What we are disputing is the fact that the OP is claiming that a 64-bit OS is somehow to blame for reduced or limited functionality of a 32 bit application. That is simply not true!

And also, no it is not ALWAYS better to use a 64-bit Application on a 64-bit OS. As I stated, Microsoft themselves, suggest using the 32-bit Office instead of the 64-bit version. It is depended on each individual case and cannot just be a general rule.

I use both MT4 and MT5 (64-bit) on a Windows 10 (64 bit) daily, and frankly, I still find MT5 very lacking even with all "its so great 64-bit sales pitch". Its multi-processing and other "candy" has nothing to do with it being 64-bit and could also have been implemented in MT4 if the developers wanted to do so. In fact, as I am not absolutely sure on this, MT5 is also available in 32-bit form.

Alain Verleyen
37287
Alain Verleyen  
Fernando Carreiro:

I use both MT4 and MT5 (64-bit) on a Windows 10 (64 bit) daily, and frankly, I still find MT5 very lacking even with all "its so great 64-bit sales pitch". Its multi-processing and other "candy" has nothing to do with it being 64-bit and could also have been implemented in MT4 if the developers wanted to do so. In fact, as I am not absolutely sure on this, MT5 is also available in 32-bit form.

May I ask what you mean by "very lacking" ?
Fernando Carreiro
4958
Fernando Carreiro  
Alain Verleyen: May I ask what you mean by "very lacking" ?

Several things, but pertaining to the thread, the performance improvement, although obvious, is not as great as "advertised" or "hyped" about "High Frequency Trading" adverts. It is also quite "resource" hungry! (Edit: HFT and not HPT as I had in the original text)

But there are many other things, not directly related to the thread as it is missing functionality that is available in MT4 (but still not available on MT5, even after years of waiting). There are also several other operations that were quite easy to do in MT4 but for some unknown reason, has been made more complicated to achieve.

For example, a simple (non-visual) back-test in MT4 allowed one to see the trade results during and afterwards, but in MT5 one can only have access to them via the Export output (from the Graph window), or the final Test Report, or on-screen if done in Visual Mode. Obviously I can have a look at the report or fast-track the Visual test by skipping to the end of the test period, but the overall steps required to do all this simply and quickly, takes much longer and is not very user-friendly or intuitive.

Yes, there are also many great and good things about it, but it is not usual for an upgrade application to take away so much functionality from previous versions that users like and have become dependent on. Usually one looks forward to the new and improved model, but not in this case. It was more of a move from a "sedan" to a "SUV", instead of to a new "luxury sedan".

Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez
5163
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez  
Fernando Carreiro:

Where and when did I say that? I did say that we have had "disputes" and "clashed" on opinions but not that I never agree with Alain.

EDIT: Actually, it was Alain and not me, that said something towards those lines but not in that context that you have portrayed ... Fernando, I will surprise you...I totally agree with you


Yes, I refered to that. And, yes, Alain said and not you. I thought it was you, sorry. Anyway, this question does not matter. It was a joke.

Fernando Carreiro:

Slow Speed? Memory Limit? I have never had any application run slower on a 64 bit OS than a 32 bit OS on the same machine.

I have seen 32-bit applitacions running slower on a 64-bit OS than on a native 32-bit OS. Same machine and same application.


Fernando Carreiro:
As for memory limits, how can a 64-bit OS be limiting the memory of a 32 bit application? It is limited by its own 32-bit address space, not because the 64-bit OS is limiting it!

No, I didn't say that. A 64-bit OS doesn't limit memory (a 32-bit OS does), but if you use a 32-bit application, you will not take advantage of ALL of the RAM memory installed in your machine, even if you are using a 64-bit OS. That's what I refered to.


Fernando Carreiro:
If you are saying that the 64-bit version of a application can be superior to a 32-bit version (emphasis on "can be", because it is not necessarily always the case) because it has at its disposal a larger address space, CPU functionality, etc. - then yes, but no one is disputing that.


Yes, I'm saying that, too.


Fernando Carreiro:

What we are disputing is the fact that the OP is claiming that a 64-bit OS is somehow to blame for reduced or limited functionality of a 32 bit application. That is simply not true!


I think it's true, due to what I said above.


Fernando Carreiro:

And also, no it is not ALWAYS better to use a 64-bit Application on a 64-bit OS. As I stated, Microsoft themselves, suggest using the 32-bit Office instead of the 64-bit version. It is depended on each individual case and cannot just be a general rule.


It should be so always. If not, maybe the 64 bit application isn't well implemented.



Yes, MT5 has a 32-bit version.

Regards.

Fernando Carreiro
4958
Fernando Carreiro  
Jose Francisco Casado Fernandez:
  1. I have seen 32-bit applitacions running slower on a 64-bit OS than on a native 32-bit OS. Same machine and same application.
  2. No, I didn't say that. A 64-bit OS doesn't limit memory (a 32-bit OS does), but if you use a 32-bit application, you will not take advantage of ALL of the RAM memory installed in your machine, even if you are using a 64-bit OS. That's what I refered to.
  3. Yes, I'm saying that, too.
  4. I think it's true, due to what I said above.
  5. It should be so always. If not, maybe the 64 bit application isn't well implemented.
  1. Was MT4 one of those cases? Because, that is what is actually at stake here if you intend to defend the OP's claim!
  2. But that is not the fault of the OS (nor the application), and cannot be used as a "fact" to defend of the OP's claim. It simply is not relevant to the OP's claim.
  3. Agreed and not disputing it!
  4. Again, is it a behavior you have noticed on MT4 (as stated in point 1)?
  5. No, it does not necessarily have to do with the quality of the implementation. Bigger is not always better, and using 64-bit for everything is an "overkill" for many a situation that does not need it. The fact that MT5 also has a 32-bit version, shows that MT5 can in fact accomplish many things without using it and that it should not be used as a measure to say that MT5 is better than MT4 just because it is 64-bit. All that the 64bit version can claim over a 32bit one, is that it can access and manage more resources and maybe also slightly improved processing power. That is all! Functionality and Usability should be the keys that should define what MT5 may have over MT4 (not whether it is 64 bit or 32 bit).
Blahtech Limited
8876
James Cater  
Alain Verleyen:
May I ask what you mean by "very lacking" ?

MQL5 got better in the last 12 months, especially in single threaded performance. However we have had to put in some nasty workarounds to bugs that Metaquotes don't seem to want acknowledge or fix.

And of course we're not permitted to discuss those issues on this forum because it's for "user issues" and not Metaquotes issues.

We should probably set up a "Developer group" that can review the top issues and put some pressure on Metaquotes from the development community, rather than having the platform being driven so much by Marketing and Brokers requirements.

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