Discussion of article "Do Traders Need Services From Developers?" - page 6
You are missing trading opportunities:
- Free trading apps
- Over 8,000 signals for copying
- Economic news for exploring financial markets
Registration
Log in
You agree to website policy and terms of use
If you do not have an account, please register
Abolk, you are talking nonsense and showing a complete lack of understanding of business processes.
I understand that you want to introduce absolute hardcore in the rules and kill the service instantly within a week? After all, this is what you mean in your criticism and requests. At the same time, you do not forget to complain that it is impossible to get to the top without tension (you deny tension in principle).
No offence, but couch businessmen, being allowed to actually run a business, instantly put it in a puddle. Business always involves compromises (understanding the requests of all parties), concessions (sufficient leniency in the rules) and assumptions (losses/acceptable fraud rate) to reach the goal.
We built the service, enabled customers to get results, performers to earn, and we have been subsidising this service all along for the sake of ecosystem development. All statistics are publicly available like few other similar services, all work is in plain sight, including financial indicators. It is unreasonable to throw yourself at it, switching off your head in an attempt to come up with "give more, there is no trust".
Please note the factual material: https://www.mql5.com/ru/job/developers
Whoever wants to work, really earns. Of course, you have to work hard like in any other business. And you have to sell your skills too.
Wahoo is obviously a firm with several outsourced coders. I don't believe that it is possible to fulfil two or three orders in a day as wahoo does. A single person can't do it, even with his own code base. So it turns out that a hundred should be divided into several people at least. hnp2500 is probably the same.
Second - the earnings for two years are specified (almost exactly). I.e. we divide wahoo's hundredth in half. We get 1,500,000 rubles at the average exchange rate. For three people (I think there are not less than that) it is 500,000 rubles a year. For a person it turns out about 40,000 rubles a month. In St. Petersburg, a conductor on a tram gets 35,000 a month. A makdak employee gets about the same. Well, the firm "wahoo & Co." managed to earn a little more than a conductor, and this is a top freelancer.
Let's do the math for Bolkonsky: that's $14,000 over two years or $7,000 a year. Let's assume that official freelancing is only half of his orders. Multiply the profit twice, we get $14,000 a year or $35,000 a month at the average rate. Yay. We got the average macdonald's salary.
The question is, why study mcl, why waste time and effort? What would it take to fight for every order and eventually earn as much as you can without training to earn in a McDonald's?
Why I will never take orders in freelancing (100% my view, please don't take offence if anything):
- Freelancing is a completely non-scalable business. The complexity of modern software solutions is so great that they have to be mass products to at least recoup the cost of their development. Freelancing is always individual and one-time solutions (which is emphasised). You cannot sell written code more than once.
- Developing elaborate software solutions out of the box and freelance programming are two different universes. Boxed, scalable solutions are made for centuries. Such algorithms should be reliable, stable, have a flexible architecture, easily adapt to new conditions, evolve over time. A developer should think over every code block and understand that his code will be executed on dozens or maybe even hundreds of machines of different users. For example, with this approach, if there is a possibility to speed up the code by 5% at the cost of 20 man-hours, you should do it. Because 5% multiplied by a hundred users gives not a single hour of saved machine time. In Frillnas, the situation is the opposite. The faster you do it, the better. I don't know how to write fast, I know how to write well. I value my labour and will never give it away for nothing.
- Most freelance orders are dull and monotonous. Formally, beginner mql coders and professionals can cope with them. It is clear that beginners will do worse, but formally do. All over the world uniqueness is valued rather than stamping. And you can't say that about freelance orders. No matter how great an μl-coder you are, you will do stamping, and nowhere pay much for it.
- Freelancing is an income either for schoolchildren or for people living in regions with depressed economies and can be satisfied with $500 a month. It's great that schoolchildren can start getting their first pocket money from the age of 15-16, I'm happy for them, but I'm not a schoolchild and I live in the second largest city in Russia. Yes, in many countries earnings are much lower than in our country. But it is also much cheaper to live there. I can't afford to make orders for $10 because meat in my shop costs $15 and utilities are $150. I can't come to the shop and say, "You know, in Zimbabwe people work for $100 a month. Considering this, maybe you can sell me this piece of meat for 3 quid?" If customers valued my code and paid me like in the best programming firms: 500 rubles per hour - then maybe I would agree to put up with even the non-scalability of this business. As long as this is not the case, I will not even consider such a possibility. I'd rather go sell cutlets at McDonald's. Because it's simple: if McDak pays the same or even more for less skilled labour, you should not waste yourself on useless knowledge, but go to fry cutlets.
Once again I will write that the above is only my vision of what freelancing is. Perhaps I am cruelly mistaken. Perhaps freelancing is a golden Eldorado. Everything is possible. But I have the right to my opinion, even a wrong one, and I stick to it.I must disappoint you.
Of course you write correctly about the difference between freelancing and boxed solutions. Theoretically beautiful and understandable for students. But in reality everything is quite sad.
Freelancing gives almost instant results, with close to 90% probability of completion and quick payment. But development of boxed software gives 10% probability of achieving financial results. I'd give a much lower 10%, point out the several years of development, the monstrous costs, and remind you that the software business is one of endless failure.
For an example look at Wahoo - it made about 100,000 USD in 2 years in freelancing. And this is only in the public part of the service, not to mention possible direct contacts with customers. This is a real and absolutely visible result in the public statistics.
We also have a service for selling finished products. Fortunately, application programmes for our trading platforms do not require huge capital investments, are developed within reasonable timeframes, have direct access to the entire audience of users, and they have more chances. For example, there is a member in appstore who has earned about $130,000 in 10 months from selling his programmes.
I have to point out a nasty error in your reasoning where you implicitly make the assumption that "in freelancing 1 task per month and I have the right to compare the income from that task to my monthly expenses". Also, I showed above that the average prices in the marketplace are not $10. Yes, the auction is started by the customer with a lower bar, but it is raised in the process of discussions.
Renat. On the first page you yourself (me personally) called on me to express my thoughts. You expressed a number of theses -- I expressed my considerations in response to your theses. By the way, I wasted my time and received zero thanks from you in return. You don't like my arguments -- don't take them into account. You can erase everything I've said. Your ecosystem is growing with a lot of new visitors and members. The opinions of one or two in that volume of growing factual material -- simply insignificant. Had it not been for your invitation to dialogue -- I would not have said a word on the topic you raised here. If you had a desire and need to hear another point of view -- you heard it. And there's no judgement on "no". I'll leave now.
Unfortunately, you have not expressed anything constructive, but have slipped into a critic who does not understand business realities. As I pointed out above, you make the opposite requests: to tighten the rules and complain "they don't let you into the top". Well, the fact that it will kill everything at the root, it's not your problem, you "hereby withdraw" and just "expressed considerations".
The only thing that we will strengthen the filter for calculating the top. But it is not fundamental in reality and do not need to consider it the main motivator of customers.
I have to disappoint you.
Of course you write correctly about the difference between freelancing and boxed solutions. Theoretically beautiful and understandable for students. But in reality everything is quite sad.
Freelancing gives almost instant results, with close to 90% probability of completion and quick payment. But development of boxed software gives 10% probability of achieving financial results. I'd give a much lower 10%, point out the several years of development, the monstrous costs, and remind you that the software business is one of endless failure.
...
No, you didn't disappoint me. It's just that I hit this rake myself last year. I worked in a coder's office that had a long life. The project went under. The reason was banal - the cost of development kept growing, and there was no financial return. In the end, the founders-investors said "enough" and closed the shop.
But what can you do if you are a romantic at heart? And again and again you try to do something special, but the rake hits you again and again?
...We also have a service for selling ready-made products. Fortunately, application programmes for our trading platforms do not require huge capital investments, are developed within a reasonable time frame, have direct access to the entire audience of users, and have a better chance. For example, there is a member on appstore who made about $130,000 in 10 months selling his software.
Yes, I personally bet on your Market - objectively it is the best solution for selling apps:
- Programmes are securely protected from piracy.
- Full-fledged online shop. No need to promote your own site. Administer your own shop engine, bother with processing.
- Partial support - translation of the abstract, icon design if necessary.
In general, what you need for a beginning market seller.Wahoo is obviously a company with several outsourced coders. I don't believe that it is possible to fulfil two or three orders a day, as wahoo does. A single person can't do it, even with his own code base. So it turns out that a hundred should be divided into at least several people. hnp2500 is probably the same.
Second - the earnings for two years are specified (almost exactly). I.e. we divide wahoo's hundredth in half. We get 1,500,000 rubles at the average exchange rate. For three people (I think there are not less than that) it is 500,000 rubles a year. For a person it turns out about 40,000 rubles a month. In St. Petersburg, a conductor on a tram gets 35,000 a month. A makdak employee gets about the same. Well, the firm "wahoo & Co." managed to earn a little more than a conductor, and this is a top freelancer.
Let's do the math for Bolkonsky: that's $14,000 over two years or $7,000 a year. Let's assume that official freelancing is only half of his orders. Multiply the profit twice, we get $14,000 a year or $35,000 a month at the average rate. Yay. We got the average macdonald's salary.
The question is, why study mcl, why waste time and effort? To fight for every order and end up earning as much as you can without training earn in mcdak?
I don't have accurate data on wahoo and hnp2500.
...
For an example, look at Wahoo
...
Are you sure he's fulfilling orders? I have a slight suspicion that it's pumping money from paypal.
Yes, Renat, a standing ovation.
Did you think that we have fools working for us who don't understand anything and to whom you can slip nonsense? Evaluate your opponents not on laughs and haha, but taking into account their experience and achievements, please.
Politeness is not a weakness, but a method of neatly showing the wrongness of the interlocutor. Unfortunately, it is also the same that makes you refuse direct and hard evidence.
Are you sure he's fulfilling orders? There's a slight suspicion it's a Paypal transfer.
He does.
He has a huge number of customers all over the world. Besides, it doesn't make sense for us to chase money purely economically, strict rules and good anti-fraud control. It would be pure madness for the owner of such an account to risk being blocked.