What drives automated trading?

To add comments, please log in or register
Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  

Let's provoke the audience, sharing my thoughts ;)

First, the freelancers.

Even a trader, with most humble starting financial resources would quickly move to the point, where he earns more from trading, than from freelance services. 

If she/he is a decent trader.


Second, the EA makers.

If somebody has programmed the ultimate EA, why should she/he offer it to the public? She/he could earn much more using it.

Charity? I doubt...


Lets look from the client's side. Why a trader should buy an EA? 

First possible reason - because she/he can't trade and hopes that somewhere in the market there is a magic strategy that will make money for her/him.

Second possible reason - a strategy diversification. But would a successful trader add to her/his portfolio a strategy that she/he is not fully aware of how does it work? Especially those Martingale EAs...


The only viable reason I see, is the semi automatic trading. A trader uses the EA as a tool which works according trader's settings, made according trader's logic and perception.


Let's add one more thing. The Hedge funds, brokers and so on are still searching for traders. Human traders, not EAs. Why? Probably, from their point of view, based on their experience, a trained trader is far better than any EA, that's why they are willing to give her/him a decent percent, rather to  buy an EA from the market for a much less price.


Hence the logic question: Is this EA market an industry, which relies mainly  on people's ignorance, on people's hopes to get rich doing nothing, not accepting responsibility, not practicing, not being stubborn and purposeful? Industry and environment in which some coders are searching for the Holy Grail, some non coders are searching to buy it(cheap if possible), and other coders, knowing that it doesn't exist are satisfying the demand and hopes of the people, releasing the next "ultimate" EA in a shiny packaging?

Any opinions?

cxan_96
480
cxan_96  

When a trader has a clearly quantifiable strategy that generates positive returns, he may seek to automate it for the following reasons:

1. Elimination of the influence of emotions in trading
An Expert Advisor does not feel emotions such as greed or fear. An EA only does what it is told to do. If a strategy that works for a human can be programmed
into an EA, it will almost certainly be more profitable due to the absence of psychological factors.

2. More free time for the trader
When the strategy of the trader can be executed by a computer, the trader has much more time to spend with his/her family and friends. Who would rather be looking
at charts all day than pursuing the things one loves?

Does this apply to the purchase of a premade EA from the market? Since the buyer is usually not familiar with the strategy, I believe this is often not the case. Therefore I think
it is really important for the buyer of an Expert that he or she thoroughly understands the product as if it was his or her own strategy before buying it.

Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  
Christian Peters:

When a trader has a clearly quantifiable strategy that generates positive returns, he may seek to automate it for the following reasons:

1. Elimination of the influence of emotions in trading
An Expert Advisor does not feel emotions such as greed or fear. An EA only does what it is told to do. If a strategy that works for a human can be programmed
into an EA, it will almost certainly be more profitable due to the absence of psychological factors.

2. More free time for the trader
When the strategy of the trader can be executed by a computer, the trader has much more time to spend with his/her family and friends. Who would rather be looking
at charts all day than pursuing the things one loves?

Does this apply to the purchase of a premade EA from the market? Since the buyer is usually not familiar with the strategy, I believe this is often not the case. Therefore I think
it is really important for the buyer of an Expert that he or she thoroughly understands the product as if it was his or her own strategy before buying it.


I agree. 

So, it comes out that a person should first be a trader and either to develop an automation strategy by himself, or to understand the logic of a premade EA completely.     

The automation appears as an upgrade for a trading, not a workaround for it. 

Waseem Raza
9998
Waseem Raza  

Mostly peoples are not professional or full-time trader and it means they don't have experience 

When mostly peoples not professional it means they doing other jobs or business so they need EA

I agree with Christian Peters if a trader experienced something better they looking in automated 

In some tradings like fast scalping, breaking levels or price action EA fast than human reason trader cannot wait all the time or sit in front of PC 

If peoples losing even with EA the big reason is they want to earn fast in short time they don't want 2% to 3% per month 

Peoples wish to turn 500 to 1000 in short time but if they have 1 million in account they agree on 3% growth because they don't want to risk their funds and that's why few traders win always


By the way, you asked like this 

If a typewriter can type without electricity and without any additional cost then why need computer and printer, 

Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  
Waseem Raza:

Mostly peoples are not professional or full-time trader and it means they don't have experience 

When mostly peoples not professional it means they doing other jobs or business so they need EA

I agree with Christian Peters if a trader experienced something better they looking in automated 

In some tradings like fast scalping, breaking levels or price action EA fast than human reason trader cannot wait all the time or sit in front of PC 

If peoples losing even with EA the big reason is they want to earn fast in short time they don't want 2% to 3% per month 

Peoples wish to turn 500 to 1000 in short time but if they have 1 million in account they agree on 3% growth because they don't want to risk their funds and that's why few traders win always


By the way, you asked like this 

If a typewriter can type without electricity and without any additional cost then why need computer and printer, 


In your opinion you assume that there are profitable EAs which do not require trader's adjustments(being not experienced or non-professional, traders wouldn't be able to properly adjust the EA). But if there were such EAs, why someone would trade manually at all?

I don't say that it is impossible to have profit using an EA. I say, that there is no an EA which can work without a human intervention and to win constantly in a long run guaranteed.  So, there is always a risk.  If so, how the inexperienced trader could gauge the risk of a system he  doesn't fully understand? He may pay for an EA and then lose money.


Your comparison with the typewriter is not correct. The typewriter is trained in typewriting. The inexperienced trader is NOT trained in trading.

Marco vd Heijden
Moderator
8173
Marco vd Heijden  

Greed.

Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  
Marco vd Heijden:

Greed.


This applies to manual trading as well :)

And not only to trading.

Waseem Raza
9998
Waseem Raza  
Boyan Taksirov:

In your opinion you assume that there are profitable EAs which do not require trader's adjustments(being not experienced or non-professional, traders wouldn't be able to properly adjust the EA). But if there were such EAs, why someone would trade manually at all?

I don't say that it is impossible to have profit using an EA. I say, that there is no an EA which can work without a human intervention and to win constantly in a long run guaranteed.  So, there is always a risk.  If so, how the inexperienced trader could gauge the risk of a system he  doesn't fully understand? He may pay for an EA and then lose money.


Your comparison with the typewriter is not correct. The typewriter is trained in typewriting. The inexperienced trader is NOT trained in trading.


The main reason of failure traders try to pull high growth from the capital, every capital in any business have limits for gaining profit but when trader tries in gambling style it never works. 

When you saying fully automated then it means without human intervention and it actually made by human and any EA is the result of experience in trading.  It's a common question or blame on EA's they can't win in all seasons it's correct and the fault is when using indicators and these indications lines like seeing luck in palm lines. Results go vary by EA's when market showing different movements in different months. 

Let's say a trader want to win 30% per month so it means they risking the same size and if market not running well for 3 months equity will be zero, if trader plan to win 5% after 3 months results will be -15% or -20% so it means they still are in good health to recover. 

In the market, all money is a sum of all contributor traders, when 90% losing then 10% trader going rich if all win then who will lose?
Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  
Waseem Raza:

The main reason of failure traders try to pull high growth from the capital, every capital in any business have limits for gaining profit but when trader tries in gambling style it never works. 

When you saying fully automated then it means without human intervention and it actually made by human and any EA is the result of experience in trading.  It's a common question or blame on EA's they can't win in all seasons it's correct and the fault is when using indicators and these indications lines like seeing luck in palm lines. Results go vary by EA's when market showing different movements in different months. 

Let's say a trader want to win 30% per month so it means they risking the same size and if market not running well for 3 months equity will be zero, if trader plan to win 5% after 3 months results will be -15% or -20% so it means they still are in good health to recover. 

In the market, all money is a sum of all contributor traders, when 90% losing then 10% trader can become rich and if all win than who will lose?

What you say applies to trading as a whole, not just EAs.

Marco vd Heijden
Moderator
8173
Marco vd Heijden  
Boyan Taksirov:

This applies to manual trading as well :)

And not only to trading.

So you can now draw the final conclusion.

Boyan Taksirov
3163
Boyan Taksirov  
Waseem Raza:

Not getting you explain in other words plz 


You say that MM is the reason traders lose money with EAs, assuming that otherwise retail EAs work.

Why do you assume that? And why something profitable should be sold for a small money?

For example:

Do you think that trader's  poor MM is a reason that a Martingale EA wipes out a trader's account, or the culprit is in the way this EA operates?

12
To add comments, please log in or register