Realistic signal growth/gain. Mt4 Vs Mt5

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Eric Lee
146
Eric Lee  

Hello fellow traders. Can someone please enlighten me on the following:

1) Why is it that a significant number of signals on Mt4 present an insanely large gain compared to those on Mt5

2) Why these gains do not appear to be duplicated on subscribers accounts 99.999999% of the time, once the signal is made public

3) Generally which subscribers are more satisfied with their signal(s) performance. Those on Mt4 or those on Mt5

4) What is a realistic and sustainable performance in gain per month a subscriber should expect from their signal(s)

Let's have your thoughts...

Thanks,

Eric

Silviu Madalin Clapa
633
Silviu Madalin Clapa  

Eric Lee:


4) What is a realistic and sustainable performance in gain per month a subscriber should expect from their signal(s)


Yeah, i'm curious too about this :D
Eric Lee
146
Eric Lee  
Silviu Madalin Clapa:

Yeah, i'm curious too about this :D

Indeed...then at least a signal provider can manage the subscriber's expectation.

I happen to believe most providers actually do want to earn their subscribers a stable income but set the bar unrealistically high to attract clients. Once they have a decent following and are unable to deliver on the promised super normal profits, they take unnecessary risks and the results is a whole bunch of innocent people lose their money.

If they can indeed earn thousands of percent in growth per year, they would not need to sell their signal (and risk it being resold as I've just read on another topic). They'd simply live off their own profits and probably manage private funds from a few individuals with deep pockets for a huge commission on profits earned.

Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6670
Eleni Anna Branou  
Eric Lee:

Hello fellow traders. Can someone please enlighten me on the following:

1) Why is it that a significant number of signals on Mt4 present an insanely large gain compared to those on Mt5

2) Why these gains do not appear to be duplicated on subscribers accounts 99.999999% of the time, once the signal is made public

3) Generally which subscribers are more satisfied with their signal(s) performance. Those on Mt4 or those on Mt5

4) What is a realistic and sustainable performance in gain per month a subscriber should expect from their signal(s)

Let's have your thoughts...

Thanks,

Eric

Most of these extraterrestrial profits (1000%-10.000%) per month, are only achieved once and then when the signal is shared with MQL5 they tend to go flat or to total disaster.

The creators of such accounts/signals usually open a lot of small accounts (cent accounts or with a few USD balance) and they gamble with huge positions in order to record these super profits.

One out of all these accounts (out of freaky luck) succeed to record such a huge profit and then they share this account (and not all the loosers) with MQL5 as a super signal!

Of course this freaky luck is never repeated twice, so all the MQL5 members who want to be rich overnight and subscribe to these signals, they end up with blown up accounts.

I have already contacted Service Desk with this phenomenon and the result was this grey growth line (turned light blue now) for the period the signal was not published here at MQL5 website.

Eric Lee
146
Eric Lee  
Eleni Anna Branou:

Most of these extraterrestrial profits (1000%-10.000%) per month, are only achieved once and then when the signal is shared with MQL5 they tend to go flat or to total disaster.

The creators of such accounts/signals usually open a lot of small accounts (cent accounts or with a few USD balance) and they gamble with huge positions in order to record these super profits.

One out of all these accounts (out of freaky luck) succeed to record such a huge profit and then they share this account (and not all the loosers) with MQL5 as a super signal!

Of course this freaky luck is never repeated twice, so all the MQL5 members who want to be rich overnight and subscribe to these signals, they end up with blown up accounts.

I have already contacted Service Desk with this phenomenon and the result was this grey growth line (turned light blue now) for the period the signal was not published here at MQL5 website.

Its interesting how they are able to achieve that on Mt4 platform and not Mt5. And this is what led me to ponder if subscribers to Mt5 signals are actually more satisfied with their signal providers compared to those on Mt4 since the results of performance presented on that platform are more realistic.

I've noticed the gray line. That was through your efforts! Excellent. So contrary to what some believe, MQ is prepared to take in suggestions and improve their service whenever necessary.

Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6670
Eleni Anna Branou  
Eric Lee:

Its interesting how they are able to achieve that on Mt4 platform and not Mt5. And this is what led me to ponder if subscribers to Mt5 signals are actually more satisfied with their signal providers compared to those on Mt4 since the results of performance presented on that platform are more realistic.

I've noticed the gray line. That was through your efforts! Excellent. So contrary to what some believe, MQ is prepared to take in suggestions and improve their service whenever necessary.

Of course MQ is ready to make improvements as long as they are well supported.

These huge profits are limited to MT4 only because its more popular among investors. I dont think they are not possible on the MT5 platform too.

Meng Yin Teoh
2155
Meng Yin Teoh  
Eleni Anna Branou:

Of course MQ is ready to make improvements as long as they are well supported.

These huge profits are limited to MT4 only because its more popular among investors. I dont think they are not possible on the MT5 platform too.


That was a very nice suggestion!

However, the growth before published is still taking consideration into MQL's rating score, so basically the rating can be still manipulated easily. Since you already contacted them about this issue, can you suggest them to remove the growth before published or put lesser weight on it for rating calculation?

btw, signal with rapid deposit/withdrawal within a short period should be punished too because this is clearly an account balance manipulation to manipulate growth.
Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6670
Eleni Anna Branou  
Meng Yin Teoh:


That was a very nice suggestion!

However, the growth before published is still taking consideration into MQL's rating score, so basically the rating can be still manipulated easily. Since you already contacted them about this issue, can you suggest them to remove the growth before published or put lesser weight on it for rating calculation?

btw, signal with rapid deposit/withdrawal within a short period should be punished too because this is clearly an account balance manipulation to manipulate growth.

I already suggested that and even recommend to grey (or light blue) the monthly growth of the months prior to MQL5 connection, since the data for this period are not sufficient.
Divyanshu Dayal
436
Divyanshu Dayal  

Hi Eric,

It is important that we look at the equity. 20$ profit on 100$ equity is 20% and only 2% on a 1000$ equity! I have seen many signals having equity of few hundred dollars and high growth percentage.

Besides, a signal provider has a higher responsibility when he is handling subscriber's fund. He is like a bank with deposits.

It is purely subscriber's immaturity and urge/ greed to make huge profits that they get attracted to signal providers. MQL5 will have to introduce a system of auditing (I suppose that would bring in a better security).

I HAVE STOPPED USING PAMMs (I consider it as broker's fraud) AND SIGNALS. In both the cases you don't know whats gonna happen. Its like praying and rolling a dice. I have only lost money with signals. Till date I spent around $ 300 on subscriptions and lost 10X time the money. I have seen people asking for refund of subscription fee. What are you gonna do with 20-30$ having lost in thousands?

My initial decision of signal selection was were very bad. In my early days of 2016 I went in for Signal with over 90% win and high growth not realizing that the open positions were all ready to blow signal providers account (that happened in 2-3 days).

Don't expect 1000$ a month from 1000$ balance. If you want to earn that much balance should be high. So in case if you feel you can earn good income with meager investment as advertised by brokers, forget it!!!!


Thanks.

Eric Lee
146
Eric Lee  
Divyanshu Dayal:

Hi Eric,

It is important that we look at the equity. 20$ profit on 100$ equity is 20% and only 2% on a 1000$ equity! I have seen many signals having equity of few hundred dollars and high growth percentage.

Besides, a signal provider has a higher responsibility when he is handling subscriber's fund. He is like a bank with deposits.

It is purely subscriber's immaturity and urge/ greed to make huge profits that they get attracted to signal providers. MQL5 will have to introduce a system of auditing (I suppose that would bring in a better security).

I HAVE STOPPED USING PAMMs (I consider it as broker's fraud) AND SIGNALS. In both the cases you don't know whats gonna happen. Its like praying and rolling a dice. I have only lost money with signals. Till date I spent around $ 300 on subscriptions and lost 10X time the money. I have seen people asking for refund of subscription fee. What are you gonna do with 20-30$ having lost in thousands?

My initial decision of signal selection was were very bad. In my early days of 2016 I went in for Signal with over 90% win and high growth not realizing that the open positions were all ready to blow signal providers account (that happened in 2-3 days).

Don't expect 1000$ a month from 1000$ balance. If you want to earn that much balance should be high. So in case if you feel you can earn good income with meager investment as advertised by brokers, forget it!!!!


Thanks.

You bring up a very important point Divyanshu, that of greed!  Greed seems to lure subscribers to the insanely high growth optics displayed by some signals. Unfortunately it quickly becomes clear that, what you see is not what you get...What would you say would be a realistic percentage gain per month(regardless of funding size) that one should expect from their signal? And as we are discussing gain, feel free to share what you believe would be the appropriate drawdown to achieve such gain...

Personally, for example, I feel a 50% monthly drawdown to achieve say 10% monthly gain is not worth the risk. But then again 10% monthly gain may seem mediocre to some subsribers and would be willing to accept 50% drawdown for 100% gain.But is 100% gain sustainable over the long run?

So from your experience, what would you suggest is a realistic gain and at what level of drawdown makes it worthwhile...

Divyanshu Dayal
436
Divyanshu Dayal  

I haven't got a clear statistics of equity and returns as such. But if at all it is imperative that we subscribe to signal, go for provider who doesn't hold more than 2 position at a time and focus on individual positions with decent SL of % less than TP.

Remember, we are trading against best brains in the world.

- If your trading is news driven then some days the price will go up on good news and on some other days go down during a similar good news.

-A bullish pattern will turn bearish and bearish pattern will turn bullish in matter of no time

-When number of long positions are high at a price the price start falling and contrary when number of long positions are high at a price the price start rising 

-There will be U turns after triggering your stop loss and if you don't place a SL it will keep going in reverse directions to generate more losses.


The only way to be in the market is go for 1% trade of your equity. I personally feel a draw down of 10-20% is more than enough for an alert. for $1500 equity max volume should be 0.02 lot. Can we follow that rule?

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