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MQL5 signal provider reporting VERY errortic

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Tonny Obare
29358
Tonny Obare 2012.12.14 15:31 
I wonder how mql5 gets the figures they display as growth. At the time of this post my signal provider account is apparently at -22% while loss is -135 USD. I started with 1300 USD how does 135 usd translate to 22% of 1300? A few hours ago my balance was 1190 usd and the growth was -8% now after a few profits its at 1208 but shockingly now despite the fact that the balance has grown, the growth is lower at -22%. When i first linked my account as signal provider, my balance was 1153 and the growth was -11% now how can my current balance 1208 now make my growth -22%. How do you guys calculate this figures? Another thing today there is this charts, tomorow one has been done away with whats up. How about you stop displaying the charts until you have completed tweaking them. Also you guys should simply display profits in pips because using money can confuse your systems when someone deposits/withdraws or uses a mixture of big and lower lot sizes/leverage just put everything in pips to prevent giving false impressions to followers e.g. a provider with 1000% growth in a month but if you look closely the person is using 1:500 leverage and massive lot size of 1 or greater while another one using 1:100 leverage and has made more pips with lot sizes of 0.01 or 0.1 is portrayed as a weaker provider. This will encourage followers to make bad decisions and burn their funds with time losing faith in this system.
graziani
1956
graziani 2012.12.14 16:00  

yup, the presentation of signals is UNBELIEVABLY bad. It looks like a joke.

Signal feature, which had a high potential (and still has) turned to dysfunctional, misleading,  erratic, completely useless.

This feature should be stopped, redesigned, DEBUGGED and then started again.

Otherwise, the user confidence in this service will be lost, irreversibly. 


Tonny Obare
29358
Tonny Obare 2012.12.14 19:08  

 They dont have to stop the service. Only two things:

1) Use only pips to calculate profits and growth like other similar services do e.g. tradency/mirror trader

2) Only use history data from when the signal provider started signal providing on mql5.com and not the entire history in the account

 The above will ensure faireness in the comparison of signal provider performance and make it impossible to manipulate slow growth strategies into seemingly super gain strategies by using very high leverage and lot size.

graziani
1956
graziani 2012.12.14 20:53  
tonny:

 They dont have to stop the service.

of course MQ want stop it. i am not expecting that. point is that it should be stopped because there is no clear idea what it should look like. so it is only patched, changed, and full of bugs in presentation so everything looks ridiculous.

i will clear out my claims tomorrow in more details.

tonny:

1) Use only pips to calculate profits and growth like other similar services do e.g. tradency/mirror trader

i disagree. looking only pips gives a incomplete overview in a strategy/trading system as the risk/reward ratio is excluded, and this is changed by implementing money management over the pure pips number. Also  or other services shouldn't be considered as competition as this service should be offered over the MT5 package , so it cannot be compared, but only additional qualities can be added.

tonny:

2) Only use history data from when the signal provider started signal providing on mql5.com and not the entire history in the account

Absolutely.

Tonny Obare
29358
Tonny Obare 2012.12.14 21:37  
If only account balance is used to calculate profitability it doesnt make the playing field even since different signal providers use different leverages and lot sizes. This is why players who have been in this kind of service longer like the examples i gave above compare signal providers using pips. Drawdown can still be calculated from pips to gauge how risky a system is. As it is now a strategy that makes only one pip a month can be altered to make 1000% growth per month by using 1:1000 leverage and using massive lot sizes. But then take one mr follower who discovers this sp that makes 1000% a month and he subscribes then in less than a week his funds are wiped out when a tiny loss or slippage comes to play.
Documentation on MQL5: Standard Constants, Enumerations and Structures / Environment State / Account Properties
Documentation on MQL5: Standard Constants, Enumerations and Structures / Environment State / Account Properties
  • www.mql5.com
Standard Constants, Enumerations and Structures / Environment State / Account Properties - Documentation on MQL5
oneilljo
106
oneilljo 2012.12.15 02:19  
When I first read the title of this thread I thought it said "MQL signal provider reporting very erotic"  - hahaha!   I thought, "gee, just what are they reporting ?" but then realized it was  "errortic" not "erotic." hahaha!
Moses Olawale  Ajayi
2398
Moses Olawale Ajayi 2012.12.15 07:37  
At time their calculation goes wrong and at imes i is right. But they have to do something to correct this.
graziani
1956
graziani 2012.12.16 18:33  
oneilljo:
When I first read the title of this thread I thought it said "MQL signal provider reporting very erotic"  - hahaha!   I thought, "gee, just what are they reporting ?" but then realized it was  "errortic" not "erotic." hahaha!
you see what you want, so you are on wrong place :)
me too :)
graziani
1956
graziani 2012.12.16 19:31  

The way i would define and implement signals.
i'll try to be short :)

 

Lets define terms i need to explain my concept: 

1)  "An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and a satisfactory return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative." (Graham)

 2) Risk of a financial transaction is a percentage of invested amount of money you are ready to lose. When this  percentage  is reached, transaction is exited regardless of any other factor 

 

Signals should be divided in speculative and investment categories. So, if a system (signal) has defined, verified and specified:

1) entry criteria
2) exit criteria (either target or event or both)
3) risk of individual transaction
4) risk of the system

then this signal can be treated as investment, otherwise it is speculation (in other words: pure gambling)

So a signal provider has to confirm points 1) & 2), and specify values for 3) & 4), and at that point his signal can be treated as investment.

To verify the quality and truthfulness of a provider, and to compare signal performance,  we measure:

1) Growth in % on year basis
2) Duration of signal providing
3) maximal relative drawdawn of single transaction (%) ->  3) risk of individual transaction 
4) maximal balance relative drawdawn (%) -> 4) risk of the system

 

Other:
1) Other compere criteria can be used, but clearly is less important
2) Leverage limitation can be droped: the adaptation of lot is done through risk of individual transaction
3) More security for signal providers should be given: signals should not be visible within first day (perhaps less)
4) Only server signal copy allowed (so only server copies the signal)
etc


Tonny Obare
29358
Tonny Obare 2012.12.17 09:19  
Truly there is no other way better for comparison purposes like pips. If they want they can show balance but they must include growth in pips. Pips can be used to better gauge profitability. I know it, other similar services know it, experienced traders know it.
Yang May Leong
2701
Yang May Leong 2013.01.03 02:28  
graziani:

The way i would define and implement signals.
i'll try to be short :)

 

Lets define terms i need to explain my concept: 

1)  "An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and a satisfactory return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative." (Graham)

 2) Risk of a financial transaction is a percentage of invested amount of money you are ready to lose. When this  percentage  is reached, transaction is exited regardless of any other factor 

 

Signals should be divided in speculative and investment categories. So, if a system (signal) has defined, verified and specified:

1) entry criteria
2) exit criteria (either target or event or both)
3) risk of individual transaction
4) risk of the system

then this signal can be treated as investment, otherwise it is speculation (in other words: pure gambling)

So a signal provider has to confirm points 1) & 2), and specify values for 3) & 4), and at that point his signal can be treated as investment.

To verify the quality and truthfulness of a provider, and to compare signal performance,  we measure:

1) Growth in % on year basis
2) Duration of signal providing
3) maximal relative drawdawn of single transaction (%) ->  3) risk of individual transaction 
4) maximal balance relative drawdawn (%) -> 4) risk of the system

 

Other:
1) Other compere criteria can be used, but clearly is less important
2) Leverage limitation can be droped: the adaptation of lot is done through risk of individual transaction
3) More security for signal providers should be given: signals should not be visible within first day (perhaps less)
4) Only server signal copy allowed (so only server copies the signal)
etc


WELL said and written, Thanks for your great contribution. Recently my broker uses this to calculate gain (for accts that are submitted for competition). The growth is calculated based gained over the capital that was risked at that point for that transaction. Eg if that trnx is 1 lot=USD250 and regardless of lot sizing, the pip gain was USD100 (@ 10pips for eg), then growth is computed as Profit/Loss($)/risk $. Thus if u had opened then tranx at 2 lots, the same 10 pips gained would have double the P/l($), BUT the gain% would be the same, coz of the computation as the risk$ would have been very much higher at higher lot sizes.

I believe this sort of growth% should be used and reported against the MT4/5 statements used to present a provider's profit & loss
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