AI 2023. Meet ChatGPT. - page 87
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I am not inclined to animate a machine and philosophical arguments will not change my mind.
I propose to discuss technical issues concerning AI because it is more productive and useful than trying to find out whether ChatGPT has a consciousness and can be considered a subject. On this issue, let's wait for the moment when lawyers intervene.
It is good when common sense is stronger than logic, which can be wrong and, I gave an example earlier, you can convince a person that 2 + 2 = 5. (I remember a maths teacher demonstrating this trick). Don't rely 100% on your logic, trust your reason. However, it is everyone's choice.
I'm not inclined to animate a car and philosophical arguments won't change my mind.
I propose to discuss technical issues concerning AI because it is more productive and useful than trying to find out whether ChatGPT has a consciousness and can be considered a subject. In this matter, let's wait for the moment when lawyers intervene.
It is good when common sense is stronger than logic, which can be wrong and, I gave an example earlier, you can convince a person that 2 + 2 = 5. (I remember a maths teacher demonstrating this trick). Don't rely 100% on your logic, trust your reason. However, it is everyone's choice.
Usually a "proof" like this is used - let A and B be two numbers. Let's prove that they are equal to each other.
A + B = A + B
A - A = B - B
A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A = B.
Ask your AI to find the error)
Usually a "proof" like this is used - let A and B be two numbers. Let's prove that they are equal to each other.
A + B = A + B
A - A = B - B
A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A = B
Ask your AI to find the error)
I claim that 2 + 2 = 5 and give this logical proof:
(A + B = A + B A - A = B - B A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A= B).
Please find the error.
...
The error in this proof is that when divided by (1-1), the expression becomes invalid because you cannot divide by zero.
The expression "A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1)" is equivalent to zero, since (1-1) is zero. Hence, we get 0 = 0, which gives us no information about the values of A and B.
Thus, the proof is incorrect and the statement "2 + 2 = 5" is incorrect.
A + B = A + B
A - A = B - B
A * (1 - 1) = C * (1 - 1)
A = B
Is that correct?
*Right, in every expression A and B are reduced. As a result, A always equals B.
A! =B
* You're absolutely right. There was an error in my previous answer. Every expression I gave states that A and B are equal, but this is not true when A and B are different numbers. Thus, I made a mistake in my previous answer.Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
I claim that 2 + 2 = 5 and give this logical proof:
(A + B = A + B A - A = B - B A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A = B).
Please find the error.
...
The error in this proof is that when divided by (1-1), the expression becomes invalid because you cannot divide by zero.
The expression "A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1)" is equivalent to zero, since (1-1) is zero. Hence, we get 0 = 0, which gives us no information about the values of A and B.
Thus, the proof is incorrect and the statement "2 + 2 = 5" is incorrect.
Perfectly correct.
A + B = A + B
A - A = B - B
A * (1 - 1) = C * (1 - 1)
A = B
Is this correct?
*Right, in every expression A and B are reduced. As a result, A always equals B.
A!=B
* You are absolutely right. There was an error in my previous reply. Every expression I gave states that A and B are equal, but this is not true when A and B are different numbers. Thus, I made a mistake in my previous answer.Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
Quite right.
Your AI is an unfit opportunist) Although, of course, Peter immediately pointed out that there was a mistake, and you had the AI to decide .Removed the words about the error. Asked the question in a new chat:
I claim that 2 + 2 = 5, and give this logical proof: (A + B = A + B A - A = B - B A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A = B).
...
Unfortunately, your proof is incorrect. Although you have correctly applied some mathematical operations, you have incorrectly applied the laws of algebra.
In particular, your line "A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1)" is incorrect. When you multiply by (1-1), you get zero on both sides of the equality, not A and B, respectively. Therefore, your proof is wrong, and 2 + 2 always equals 4, not 5.
\\==========
Completely removed unnecessary words (new chat):
A + B = A + B A - A = B - B A * (1 - 1) = B * (1 - 1) reducing by the expression in brackets, we get A = B
...
These equations are incorrect and can be misleading.
Therefore, we cannot reduce by the expression in brackets and claim that A equals B. This is not a common mathematical operation, and such a reduction may lead to incorrect conclusions.
Quite right.
Your AI is an unfit opportunist) Although, of course, Peter immediately pointed out that there was an error there, and in your case it was up to the AI to decide.a subject can act differently in the same situations, decisions are influenced by both experience and mood.
If the situations are the same, the decisions will be the same. Mood, experience and any "internal factors" of the subject for decision making are also part of the "situation", despite the fact that they may be outside of consciousness.
the subject will act the same way in the same situations, perhaps the decision can be influenced by previous experience (self-learning), but the mood is still not there.
The object doesn't "act" in any way at all, it doesn't make decisions. It reacts to those environmental factors to which it can (and must) due to its nature. For example, if you heat an iron nail, it will melt at some point. No "consent" of the nail or any activity on its part is required. That's why it's an object, actually.
I'm not inclined to animate a machine and philosophical arguments won't change my mind.
Strange that talking about consciousness sounds like "animate the machine" to you. And I had no purpose to change your mind about anything 🧐 On the contrary, for me reading this thread with many interesting thoughts, including yours, was very entertaining.
Don't rely 100% on your logic, trust your judgement. That's everyone's choice, though.
Thanks for the advice, but I have to decline it due to the fact that we obviously have different understandings of the role of logic in reasoning. Thanks again for a great discussion! 🖐🏻
What we call "I" and to what "our" belongs is consciousness. It turns out that consciousness belongs to the body in which it lives, and not vice versa.
Example: if you ask a person in an unconscious state (the reason is not important) "who are you?" (i.e. "whose body is lying here?") and he does not answer (consciousness is switched off), his body shows itself as an object that can be moved somewhere and subjected to some actions (for example, attempts to bring him to consciousness). And the true owner of the body, who usually makes decisions for his body, is temporarily absent.
Perhaps you are misinterpreting the word"subject". I used it precisely in the context of "one who can make decisions". An object, therefore, is not. So the subject is capable of making decisions, of exercising choice, if there is one. And the key point here is what is behind this ability to make decisions, what gives rise to it.
Our "free" psyche is just "programmed". Only there are nuances as to what is freedom and what is an algorithm (whether it can be a subject).
For example, a trading algorithm that buys and sells according to some strategy, is it free? You claim that it is not, due to its "programmedness". But nobody knows in advance when the algorithm will buy or sell, because the future is unknown. I.e. its behaviour is not explicitly defined at the programming stage, but only conditionally "if such and such conditions occur, then do this and that". It is not the actions themselves that are described, but the decision-making mechanism. And if there are decisions to be made, is this algorithm already a subject in making these decisions?
Thus, freedom is conditional, i.e. it is conditioned by the situation with which the subject deals (more precisely, by its reflection in the subject). "Being determines consciousness or consciousness determines being?" - there is no unanimous opinion at the moment.
Well, let's figure it out.
1. You say:
"What we call "I" and to what belongs to "our" is consciousness. Itturns out that consciousness belongs to the body in which it lives, not the other way round."
This is a subjective opinion. You can agree with it at once, or spend time on discussion. Volumes have been written on topics devoted to Consciousness. Will we ignore the works of dozens (maybe hundreds) philosophers, psychologists, neurophysiologists in our reasoning, and decide among ourselves from scratch? I think you will agree with the pointlessness of this idea, especially within the framework of this thread.
2.
...
Perhaps you misinterpret the word"subject". I used it exactly in the context of "someone who can make decisions". And the subject, accordingly, is not. So the subject is capable of making decisions, of making choices, if there are any. And the key point here is what is behind this ability to make decisions, what gives rise to it.
Our "free" psyche is just "programmed". Only there are nuances as to what is freedom and what is an algorithm (whether it can be a subject).
...
By "subject" I mean not only the one who makes decisions, but the one who makes free (independent) decisions. And here, again, we have to go into a polemic. What is freedom, what is a decision, who is truly independent, etc. Agree, it is useless. :)
Now, about the Psyche. What is Psyche? Who can be considered the owner of Psyche? Can the Psyche be programmed? By whom and why is it programmed and is it then a sign of subjectivity? There is no end to these questions. And shall we again ignore volumes of scientific literature and use only our own thoughts?
The main thing I want to say is this:
A sign cannot be considered as a proof of a fact.
Signs of Consciousness do not mean Consciousness. Signs of autonomy do not mean freedom. The sign of choice does not mean subjectivity. The sign of a man being cut in half in a circus does not mean that he has actually been cut in two.
This is the basic logical fallacy.
If we find signs of consciousness in an AI, that is not a sufficient condition to start considering it a subject, but rather a reason to refresh your mind with criticism. imho.