Sellers and the support
Some users reported that their products were deleted because of violating the new rules.
So, the new rules are still applied but it is not immediate action.
Sergey,
I can imagine that you as moderator have a direct channel to Metaquotes. If yes then would it please be possible for you to ask if it is still valid (in all aspects) what was first announced from their side. Basically you have already answered it in your message that this is an ongoing process but it could be nice to have it black on white directly from Metaquotes. A couple of years ago it was possible to contact Metaquotes both by private message from the seller's product page (in edit mode) as well as from the Service desk. Both these options has been removed so I must say that the customer service towards the sellers are really lousy. Using the forum here sometimes helps in getting an adequate answer but mostly there are only speculations when it comes to what Metaquotes are up to and why.
Best regards,
Jan
Sergey,
I can imagine that you as moderator have a direct channel to Metaquotes. If yes then would it please be possible for you to ask if it is still valid (in all aspects) what was first announced from their side. Basically you have already answered it in your message that this is an ongoing process but it could be nice to have it black on white directly from Metaquotes. A couple of years ago it was possible to contact Metaquotes both by private message from the seller's product page (in edit mode) as well as from the Service desk. Both these options has been removed so I must say that the customer service towards the sellers are really lousy. Using the forum here sometimes helps in getting an adequate answer but mostly there are only speculations when it comes to what Metaquotes are up to and why.
Best regards,
Jan
I am forum moderator (we as the public forum moderators have nothing to do with the Market and the rules of the Market).
But and as far as I know - new Rules (first post of the thread) are valid, and as far as I see - those rules are slowly implemented to the sellers (I did not see any "mass banning" of the sellers because of new rules).
Look at this part of the Rules - it was already published, and it is the new Rules here: https://www.mql5.com/en/market/rules#part_IV
Example in the Rules.
1. If the products of the seller do not meet the new rules' requirement so -
The Administration may remove a Product from the Market showcase for an additional check or in case the Seller does not respond to the Administration's requests. All Buyers of a removed Product can still download and install it in their MetaTrader platforms within the available number of activations.
2. If the products of the seller do not meed the recommendations (there is obligatory rules and there are some "recommendations" which were written in the rules) so -
If the Product does not meet the recommendations, its rating will be lowered, and it will be displayed in a worse position in the Market showcase. The Administration does not disclose quantitative parameters used for description evaluation and may remove any Product from the Market showcase without explaining which recommendations have been violated. Sellers are expected to use reasonable judgment in presenting their Products in the Market.
3. And finally (in case some buyer reported about seller; or Market admins discovered something):
The Administration may remove a Product from the Market showcase for an additional check or in case the Seller does not respond to the Administration's requests. All Buyers of a removed Product can still download and install it in their MetaTrader platforms within the available number of activations.
According to the provisions of Market Terms of Use Agreement, MetaQuotes Ltd reserves the right to permanently terminate the service and the Agreement without prior notice, resulting in immediate and permanent account block in case your actions seriously violate the Rules, according to MetaQuotes Ltd.----------------
As far as I understand - admins may removed ... means: admins are able to remove (but we do not know about when they/admins will usethis possibility to remove ..).
And the rating will be lowered ...
Of course, if the buyers and the sellers report about some other seller(s) who are violating new rules so the admins will look at those other seller(s) and their products may be removedfrom the Market.
So, it is new rules ... rules only (and Market admins are having more rights for now to ban the sellers from the Market).
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if I am wrong so sorry but I explained about how I understand it.
- www.mql5.com
The main issue as I personally see it, is the bulletproof (non existing) channel for us sellers and moderators to communicate with admins regarding market and product issues. I know that the rules are available for us and well explained. But sometimes there are still things which are unclear and which you need to ask about in order not to get banned later. The sellers here have to stay tight 24/7 to answer questions from buyers but metaquotes, who get a 20% commisson for each sold product, is somehow non existing for the sellers in terms of support. This is really a disturbing fact.
I have one example regarding how the rules are controlled. A year ago I added a comment (same text) to 6 of my products. It was just text about that I will be on vacation for 2 weeks. Since I did it within a short time interval Metaquotes banned me for a month claiming me as a spammer. I know that they have some robot detecting these things automatically. In my case it was obviously not spam. I added a post on the forum to get some help how to be unbanned and guess what, a moderator asked me to contact an admin. Something which unfortunately is not possible. I just had to accept a limited account (not being able to add new product, updates, edit blogs etc.) for a month.
...
I have one example regarding how the rules are controlled. A year ago I added a comment (same text) to 6 of my products. It was just text about that I will be on vacation for 2 weeks. Since I did it within a short time interval Metaquotes banned me for a month claiming me as a spammer. I know that they have some robot detecting these things automatically. In my case it was obviously not spam. I added a post on the forum to get some help how to be unbanned and guess what, a moderator asked me to contact an admin. Something which unfortunately is not possible. I just had to accept a limited account (not being able to add new product, updates, edit blogs etc.) for a month.
Do you know what are the most popular requests which I receive by PM from the sellers?
"Please, delete this bad review of my product, because this review is not correct and not a true."
I may reply: "I can not delete anything from the Market ..."
They continue: "Who can delete? Admin? Can you please send my request to admin to delete this bad review?"
If the sellers will have some support channel from the service desk so the most requests will be the following: "please delete this review."
But your situation is exceptional one, and you could write to the service desk by selecting any category for that, or ask moderators in case at least one forum moderator know you by your posts on this forum; seems - you are well-knowns for the forum. But please note that we (forum moderators) are contacting with the service desk on same way (exact same way).
Because moderators can not check anything in the Market. We can just believe or not to believe to the seller about some situation the seller may explain for example.
Same with this new rules: we (forum moderators) have nothing to do with the Market.
And if someone is banned for new rules violation (or his product was removed from the Market because of that) so nothing we can do.
Especially if there is announcement about new rules (first post of the thread).
Do you know what are the most popular requests which I receive by PM from the sellers?
"Please, delete this bad review of my product, because this review is not correct and not a true."
I may reply: "I can not delete anything from the Market ..."
They continue: "Who can delete? Admin? Can you please send my request to admin to delete this bad review?"
If the sellers will have some support channel from the service desk so the most requests will be the following: "please delete this review."
But your situation is exceptional one, and you could write to the service desk by selecting any category for that, or ask moderators in case at least one forum moderator know you by your posts on this forum; seems - you are well-knowns for the forum. But please note that we (forum moderators) are contacting with the service desk on same way (exact same way).
Because moderators can not check anything in the Market. We can just believe or not to believe to the seller about some situation the seller may explain for example.
Same with this new rules: we (forum moderators) have nothing to do with the Market.
And if someone is banned for new rules violation (or his product was removed from the Market because of that) so nothing we can do.
Especially if there is announcement about new rules (first post of the thread).
The post from @Jan Flodin was not about moderators. It's about Metaquotes support this THEIR customers. We, as sellers, are paying a high commission, in exchange of services. The problems are :
- The support from Metaquotes, for real issues, from serious sellers, is close to 0.
- The communication of Metaquotes is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Like management by obscurity from the middle-age.
- There is no channel for discussion among serious, professional sellers (coders and/or traders) and Metaquotes.
- There are big and serious issues which should be known by all sellers. But Metaquotes is totally irresponsible. They hide things, they delete posts which they don't like.
All of this is obvious for any one dealing with Metaquotes, I am sure there will not be 1 post able to say something else with serious arguments.
You can delete my post if you want Sergey. But think seriously about it before doing it. I am really fed up by Metaquotes and to be treated as a number and a moron which doesn't know anything.
Do you know what are the most popular requests which I receive by PM from the sellers?
"Please, delete this bad review of my product, because this review is not correct and not a true."
I may reply: "I can not delete anything from the Market ..."
They continue: "Who can delete? Admin? Can you please send my request to admin to delete this bad review?"
If the sellers will have some support channel from the service desk so the most requests will be the following: "please delete this review."
But your situation is exceptional one, and you could write to the service desk by selecting any category for that, or ask moderators in case at least one forum moderator know you by your posts on this forum; seems - you are well-knowns for the forum. But please note that we (forum moderators) are contacting with the service desk on same way (exact same way).
Because moderators can not check anything in the Market. We can just believe or not to believe to the seller about some situation the seller may explain for example.
Same with this new rules: we (forum moderators) have nothing to do with the Market.
And if someone is banned for new rules violation (or his product was removed from the Market because of that) so nothing we can do.
Especially if there is announcement about new rules (first post of the thread).
Alain further developed what I wanted to say in my previous post. Thanks for that Alain. From Alain's post:
- The communication of Metaquotes is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Like management by obscurity from the middle-age.
Totally agree. I know that this is out of the scoope for this thread. But to take one example of a change which came out of a clear blue sky (I have not found any information so far from Metaquotes on any forum here). It is about the minimum rental price for products. Last November Metaquotes changed it from $10 to $30. Maybe it makes sence. But for me personally it made troubles since I have many products priced at $30 and had a monthly rental at $10 which many customers used. I needed to do some updates for different products at that time and was forced to set rental at $30 which of course makes absolutely no sence when you have the same buy price. I just had to accept the fact that I had to remove the rental option, or set a higher buy price.
That is why I decided to create some free demo versions instead which were limited to 3 currency pairs. Something which we can see was all in vain since such demo versions are now forbidden. So I am somehow back to square 1 with the new rules applied as from 1.8.2021. Of course Metaquotes will argue that you can always download a demo version which can be run in the strategy tester. But as we all know the products here get more and more advanced and more indicators of dashboard types are offered. Such multi time frame and multi symbol products are close to impossible to program in such a way that they can show any relevent results in the strategy tester. At least in Metatrader 4.
- 2020.11.09
- www.mql5.com
The post from @Jan Flodin was not about moderators. It's about Metaquotes support this THEIR customers. We, as sellers, are paying a high commission, in exchange of services. The problems are :
- The support from Metaquotes, for real issues, from serious sellers, is close to 0.
- The communication of Metaquotes is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Like management by obscurity from the middle-age.
- There is no channel for discussion among serious, professional sellers (coders and/or traders) and Metaquotes.
- There are big and serious issues which should be known by all sellers. But Metaquotes is totally irresponsible. They hide things, they delete posts which they don't like.
All of this is obvious for any one dealing with Metaquotes, I am sure there will not be 1 post able to say something else with serious arguments.
You can delete my post if you want Sergey. But think seriously about it before doing it. I am really fed up by Metaquotes and to be treated as a number and a moron which doesn't know anything.
I explaned my opinion about why the service desk is dealing with financial issues only ... or almost only (and why the service desk is not supporting the sellers on the way as the sellers want to be supported).
This is my opinion only.
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Yes, serious sellers may have some serious issues.
But the sellers are sending the following requests to me by PM:
"Please delete this bad review from my product."
I just received several requests only (2 or 3 requests) during/for few years about auto-ban which Jan Flodin described (to help to lift ban, or to send or re-send the request to lift auto-ban for example). Several requests only from sellers during the few years were about to help to lift auto-ban.
And all the other requests were about bad reviews ...
They were sending to me because I am replying all the time by PM ...
The support from Metaquotes, for real issues, from serious sellers, is close to 0.
So, concerning my opinion, if the service desk channel will be created so - the most requests from the serious sellers will be the following:
"please delete this bad review" (and the sellers understand it as a real issue).
Example is this thread of 6 pages (yes, it is six pages in this thread, with moderators and admins participated/posted):
I want to dispute the review left
(the seller opened this thread just to say that he does not agree with one negative review, and he was asking to delete this review; it is about one review only).
----------------
I agree that the support for sellers should be well-organized especially if we are talking about this new Market Rules.
But the sellers should have more responsibility to support their customers and so on (because they are doing business anyway).
For example, I am replying on the posts concerning the following: "How can I install this product which I purchased?"
I am replying about it 2 or 5 times in a day every day during the long time on the forum.
And what about serious sellers? Are they replying on the forum to their possible customers about it? Not.
----------------
Yes, I hope that MetaQuotes will find the way to support the sellers by some support channel or any.
And I hope that the sellers will be more responsible related to their possible customers and so on.
Alain further developed what I wanted to say in my previous post. Thanks for that Alain. From Alain's post:
- The communication of Metaquotes is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Like management by obscurity from the middle-age.
Totally agree. I know that this is out of the scoope for this thread. But to take one example of a change which came out of a clear blue sky (I have not found any information so far from Metaquotes on any forum here). It is about the minimum rental price for products. Last November Metaquotes changed it from $10 to $30. Maybe it makes sence. But for me personally it made troubles since I have many products priced at $30 and had a monthly rental at $10 which many customers used. I needed to do some updates for different products at that time and was forced to set rental at $30 which of course makes absolutely no sence when you have the same buy price. I just had to accept the fact that I had to remove the rental option, or set a higher buy price.
That is why I decided to create some free demo versions instead which were limited to 3 currency pairs. Something which we can see was all in vain since such demo versions are now forbidden. So I am somehow back to square 1 with the new rules applied as from 1.8.2021. Of course Metaquotes will argue that you can always download a demo version which can be run in the strategy tester. But as we all know the products here get more and more advanced and more indicators of dashboard types are offered. Such multi time frame and multi symbol products are close to impossible to program in such a way that they can show any relevent results in the strategy tester. At least in Metatrader 4.
This our discussion may be good for separated thread (it is offtopic for this 'new Market Rules thread').
Example of separated thread: I propose the minimum price for 1 month rentals in the Market to be lowered to $10
So, someone can create the thread(s) and discuss all those issues.
Because the admins are reading the threads (and it is better to have separated thread for some issue than to make few posts in one big thread).
- 2021.06.28
- www.mql5.com
I explaned my opinion about why the service desk is dealing with financial issues only ... or almost only (and why the service desk is not supporting the sellers on the way as the sellers want to be supported).
This is my opinion only.
----------------
Yes, serious sellers may have some serious issues.
But the sellers are sending the following requests to me by PM:
"Please delete this bad review from my product."
I just received several requests only (2 or 3 requests) during/for few years about auto-ban which Jan Flodin described (to help to lift ban, or to send or re-send the request to lift auto-ban for example). Several requests only from sellers during the few years were about to help to lift auto-ban.
And all the other requests were about bad reviews ...
They were sending to me because I am replying all the time by PM ...
So, concerning my opinion, if the service desk channel will be created so - the most requests from the serious sellers will be the following:
"please delete this bad review" (and the sellers understand it as a real issue).
Example is this thread of 6 pages (yes, it is six pages in this thread, with moderators and admins participated/posted):
I want to dispute the review left
(the seller opened this thread just to say that he does not agree with one negative review, and he was asking to delete this review; it is about one review only).
----------------
I agree that the support for sellers should be well-organized especially if we are talking about this new Market Rules.
But the sellers should have more responsibility to support their customers and so on (because they are doing business anyway).
For example, I am replying on the posts concerning the following: "How can I install this product which I purchased?"
I am replying about it 2 or 5 times in a day every day during the long time on the forum.
And what about serious sellers? Are they replying on the forum to their possible customers about it? Not.
----------------
Yes, I hope that MetaQuotes will find the way to support the sellers by some support channel or any.
And I hope that the sellers will be more responsible related to their possible customers and so on.
Your answer is typically what I am talking about. That's not communication, it's deaf dialogue. You don't listen. You don't care. You are just trying to justify yourself and Metaquotes.
My partner and I are among the most serious sellers on this site, also among the ones carrying the most incomes for Metaquotes. We are providing high quality and professional services and support to all our customers, answering quickly, politely and with competently all of them. And we are expecting the same high quality services and support from Metaquotes, it never comes. I could write a book about it. From time to time, randomly we sometimes get an answer or support, it's totally unreliable and unpredictable. I am forced to go to the Russian forum to try to grab some answers, or to use private contacts.
Some colleague, one day, said me something like : "You need to take care of people". I know very well what kind of people we have to deal with, all kind of angry people, irresponsible, greedy, or whatever, which doesn't want to make any effort. I know Metaquotes can't answer all the stupid questions from the thousands of lazy or misinformed people. But not all users of Metaquotes are stupid, or lazy or irresponsible. We deserve respect, we deserve an answer to our questions. We deserve high quality services and support, which is a concept Metaquotes doesn't even seem to understand.
Recently I asked very serious questions to Metaquotes ServiceDesk about the provided services (Market), which I can't reproduce here, the answer was :
That means no answer at all. It's unacceptable.
I moved some posts in separated thread here.
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Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies
Alain Verleyen, 2021.08.05 20:22
...
The problems are :
- The support from Metaquotes, for real issues, from serious sellers, is close to 0.
- The communication of Metaquotes is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Like management by obscurity from the middle-age.
- There is no channel for discussion among serious, professional sellers (coders and/or traders) and Metaquotes.
- There are big and serious issues which should be known by all sellers. But Metaquotes is totally irresponsible. They hide things, they delete posts which they don't like.
...
As I understand - you are talking about responsibility ... The MetaQuotes are responsible for ... and MetaQuotes company is not doing this job good and so on ..
Responsibility, right?
In this case I will troll you back :)
About responsibility of the sellers.
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The problems are :
1. "Direct or consequestial loss"
Read this part of the Rules:
- Neither the Seller nor the Administration shall be liable for any direct or consequential loss arising from the operation of Products purchased through the Market service.
- Neither the Seller nor the Administration shall be liable for loss of profits in connection with the use of the Product received through the Market service.
- The Administration shall not be responsible for Buyer's breach of paragraph III.3.
The sellers are not responsible for anything according to this part of the rules, right?
If I buy some EA/tool and lose 100 dollars with it ...not because I am "stupid idiot" but because this purchase/EA/tool did it with me so how the seller will be responsible for it?
Nothing?
If nothing so you are not "serious sellers" :)
2. Address
If I lose money using the software created by the seller so will I know the address of the seller?
Not? Why?
"Serious sellers" must be courageous sellers :)
3. Aggression.
Who are the most aggressive users on the forum?
Sellers.
I do not want to elaborate it but believe that it is right: the sellers are most aggressive users on the forum, besides, some of them are positionning themselves as the enemies of the service desk ... I am talking about public aggression here ... and the sellers will not be responsible for it according to the Rules created by the service desk ...
4. Customers.
It was several years ago (2 or 3 years ago) when the sellers opened many threads demanded the customers from the service desk.
Yes, in direct meaning. The sellers told: "We are the sellers, you are receiving commission so you must provide the buyers for us!"; "Give the buyers for us, because we are the sellers and we must have buyers."
I am not joking ... it was mass remands/requests from the sellers. Mass and public.
5. Collaboration with customers.
I already explaned on this post #7 about how I am collaborating with the customers of the sellers on the forum.
It means, the sellers are having the customers, but "serious sellers" are not going to support them much.
I (as a moderator) support their customers ... what for?
By the way, I am customer/buyer as well (yes, I am buying some tools from time to time) ... who will support me?
Most sellers are not going to do it .. and they do not care about it (most of them).
6. Public discussion.
The discussion about Market products and about good or bad sellers is prohibited on the forum.
The customers/buyers are not able to make any post on the forum related to bad products or their situation with the seller (the post will be deleted).
The customers/buyers can make a review only. But the sellers are asking for moderators and for the service desk to delete bad reviews ... asking all the time ..
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I created one proverb:
"It is very comfortable life of serious sellers in MQL5 Market."
:)
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So, if summarize: my trolling vs your trolling ... and it will be nothing.
Because 1 - 1 = 0
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