EA v.s. Human - page 4
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This is another interesting topic where it's like a 50/50 split. I've read many accounts of people praising their EA, with just as many people swearing up and down that an EA will lose all of your money, etc. I suppose a low-risk EA could be a good way for a new trader to a feel for the trading pace and the overall system of how things work; but probably at the end of the day, you have more control of your trading destiny by 'naked trading'.
Hi WM_49rs,
Your remark of 50/50 split is makes sence.
But what makes this 50/50split should be more seen like this:
People who thought that EA's are the best thing to trade but lost 10K$ with EA's and after they lost nearly their whole account want to give it a last shot to trade manually and suddenly made 500$ will claim that manuall trading is far better.
People who lost 10K$ through manuall trading because of fear and greed and decided to give it a last attempt and buy an EA and suddenly made 500$ with that EA will shout out loud that trading through an EA is the best.
But the way it really works is as follows:
One wants to start trading because trading seems to be total freedom. But after a while you feel that this freedom feels like an iron ball chained to your leg. Because there are no secrets. If you want to perform well then you need to feel the markets and need to sit 14 hours per day in front of your pc. You can do that for a couple of years but after 10 years you will feel a total burn out.
Or you optimize that freedom by sitting as less possible time in front of your pc and trade through EA's and you accept that you can not make every day nor every week nor every month profits and that drawdowns or losses are a part of trading like breathing is to life.
You can only live by this wisdom if you have enough capital behind you to cover the no-profit periods.
Problem is that the vast majority of the traders want to live from trading with very small capital and the moment they have no profits during a couple of months they start to get desperate and jump from EA's to manuall trading or vice versa or overtrade and take to much risk.
Friendly regards... FXiGoR
Hi WM_49rs,
Your remark of 50/50 split is makes sence.
But what makes this 50/50split should be more seen like this:
People who thought that EA's are the best thing to trade but lost 10K$ with EA's and after they lost nearly their whole account want to give it a last shot to trade manually and suddenly made 500$ will claim that manuall trading is far better.
People who lost 10K$ through manuall trading because of fear and greed and decided to give it a last attempt and buy an EA and suddenly made 500$ with that EA will shout out loud that trading through an EA is the best.
But the way it really works is as follows:
One wants to start trading because trading seems to be total freedom. But after a while you feel that this freedom feels like an iron ball chained to your leg. Because there are no secrets. If you want to perform well then you need to feel the markets and need to sit 14 hours per day in front of your pc. You can do that for a couple of years but after 10 years you will feel a total burn out.
Or you optimize that freedom by sitting as less possible time in front of your pc and trade through EA's and you accept that you can not make every day nor every week nor every month profits and that drawdowns or losses are a part of trading like breathing is to life.
You can only live by this wisdom if you have enough capital behind you to cover the no-profit periods.
Problem is that the vast majority of the traders want to live from trading with very small capital and the moment they have no profits during a couple of months they start to get desperate and jump from EA's to manuall trading or vice versa or overtrade and take to much risk.
Friendly regards... FXiGoRHi All;
I like this:
for a couple of years but after 10 years you will feel a total burn out.
Robots are robots, no feeling, no greed, based on different strategies.
Good points FXiGor.
Bongo
Hi WM_49rs,
Your remark of 50/50 split is makes sence.
But what makes this 50/50split should be more seen like this:
People who thought that EA's are the best thing to trade but lost 10K$ with EA's and after they lost nearly their whole account want to give it a last shot to trade manually and suddenly made 500$ will claim that manuall trading is far better.
People who lost 10K$ through manuall trading because of fear and greed and decided to give it a last attempt and buy an EA and suddenly made 500$ with that EA will shout out loud that trading through an EA is the best.
But the way it really works is as follows:
One wants to start trading because trading seems to be total freedom. But after a while you feel that this freedom feels like an iron ball chained to your leg. Because there are no secrets. If you want to perform well then you need to feel the markets and need to sit 14 hours per day in front of your pc. You can do that for a couple of years but after 10 years you will feel a total burn out.
Or you optimize that freedom by sitting as less possible time in front of your pc and trade through EA's and you accept that you can not make every day nor every week nor every month profits and that drawdowns or losses are a part of trading like breathing is to life.
You can only live by this wisdom if you have enough capital behind you to cover the no-profit periods.
Problem is that the vast majority of the traders want to live from trading with very small capital and the moment they have no profits during a couple of months they start to get desperate and jump from EA's to manuall trading or vice versa or overtrade and take to much risk.
Friendly regards... FXiGoRAs a programmer if I don't see any other better way than using automated trading program, provided that your robot is designed by a human who actually has a brain, and is written by a competent programmer who can write codes that does exactly according human's instruction. I believe all manual trading method can be translated into a robot, if you feel yours can't, that may indicate yours is not totally mature yet.
None Expert Adviser will ever be better than human trading
As a programmer if I don't see any other better way than using automated trading program, provided that your robot is designed by a human who actually has a brain, and is written by a competent programmer who can write codes that does exactly according human's instruction. I believe all manual trading method can be translated into a robot, if you feel yours can't, that may indicate yours is not totally mature yet.
Hi ChristinaLi,
Your conclusion is far from reality.
An efficient robot cannot compete with manual trader simply because a program cannot integer all parts of todays life. If it was the case, do you think the air transport industry would still pay experienced men to fly aircrafts? Is there not an efficient program to replace them? Same for nuclear industry and many others complex systems. Of course a plane can be flown without any pilot on board. Its called a drone. Drone are basic aircrafts to handle basic duties. No full autopilot can run from take off to complete landind and stop without any human intervention, witch means evaluate associated risks, risks of adverse weather, trafic jam.... Risk = (frequency of an event) * (probability of a damage) This is the way forex industry runs too. Why do you think are there traders in hedge funds , in exchange banks sitting in front of their PCs?
Expert Advisors are tools that can only help traders to delegate a fraction of time. Then after, a human monitoring is necessary. So even if [ all manual trading method can be translated into a robot] the result will be high risk result. Every serious industry have to care of the associated risk. This is why humans will still be in the run in the futur. Right tools for the rignts men.
No EA will ever be totally matured 24/24 with zero risk in all circumstances.
Sorry , but I have nothing to sell.
Sincerely
Have a good WE
Tomcat98
Hi ChristinaLi,
Your conclusion is far from reality.
An efficient robot cannot compete with manual trader simply because a program cannot integer all parts of todays life. If it was the case, do you think the air transport industry would still pay experienced men to fly aircrafts? Is there not an efficient program to replace them? Same for nuclear industry and many others complex systems. Of course a plane can be flown without any pilot on board. Its called a drone. Drone are basic aircrafts to handle basic duties. No full autopilot can run from take off to complete landind and stop without any human intervention, witch means evaluate associated risks, risks of adverse weather, trafic jam.... Risk = (frequency of an event) * (probability of a damage) This is the way forex industry runs too. Why do you think are there traders in hedge funds , in exchange banks sitting in front of their PCs?
Expert Advisors are tools that can only help traders to delegate a fraction of time. Then after, a human monitoring is necessary. So even if [ all manual trading method can be translated into a robot] the result will be high risk result. Every serious industry have to care of the associated risk. This is why humans will still be in the run in the futur. Right tools for the rignts men.
No EA will ever be totally matured 24/24 with zero risk in all circumstances.
Sorry , but I have nothing to sell.
Sincerely
Have a good WE
Tomcat98I like your post. I created over 100 robots but no one is perfect.
Yes, they are different. There are EAs that can make money, but not all of them are perfect.
Similarly, There are humans that will lose money, but not all of them are losers.
EA will be strictly follow the predefined strategy to work and will not be affected by human emotions. Sometimes it seems stupid.
Human are smart and flexible, however, most human tend to overtrade.
Robots control Robots
Yes, they are different. There are EAs that can make money, but not all of them are perfect.
Similarly, There are humans that will lose money, but not all of them are losers.
EA will be strictly follow the predefined strategy to work and will not be affected by human emotions. Sometimes it seems stupid.
Human are smart and flexible, however, most human tend to overtrade.My strategy is: robots control robots, 5 robots on same pair, differemt TF, but
I'm the master.
Hi ChristinaLi,
Your conclusion is far from reality.
An efficient robot cannot compete with manual trader simply because a program cannot integer all parts of todays life. If it was the case, do you think the air transport industry would still pay experienced men to fly aircrafts? Is there not an efficient program to replace them? Same for nuclear industry and many others complex systems. Of course a plane can be flown without any pilot on board. Its called a drone. Drone are basic aircrafts to handle basic duties. No full autopilot can run from take off to complete landind and stop without any human intervention, witch means evaluate associated risks, risks of adverse weather, trafic jam.... Risk = (frequency of an event) * (probability of a damage) This is the way forex industry runs too. Why do you think are there traders in hedge funds , in exchange banks sitting in front of their PCs?
Expert Advisors are tools that can only help traders to delegate a fraction of time. Then after, a human monitoring is necessary. So even if [ all manual trading method can be translated into a robot] the result will be high risk result. Every serious industry have to care of the associated risk. This is why humans will still be in the run in the futur. Right tools for the rignts men.
No EA will ever be totally matured 24/24 with zero risk in all circumstances.
Sorry , but I have nothing to sell.
Sincerely
Have a good WE
Tomcat98Just heard there are plans to get rid of Air Traffic Controllers and replace them with computers. Wont be long before pilots are replaced too.
The thing Robots bring to the table is the ability to be able to do things we cant.
You cant monitor 20 different charts with 20 different systems 24 hours a day.
You have to get past the "commercial" bots for $200, which are the bad jokes of the industry.
Learn to code! Spend the time to code and find your Grail. The more time you spend the better you will get at making winning systems.
I use mainly systems with multiple bots.
Multiple robots on the same account. But programmed to start and stop according to what other bots are doing,equity,etc. It gives huge returns and makes trading safer for me. I also have them on multiple accounts. I couldn't trade the way just 1 of these bots trade, the calculations are too fast.
Just heard there are plans to get rid of Air Traffic Controllers and replace them with computers. Wont be long before pilots are replaced too.
The thing Robots bring to the table is the ability to be able to do things we cant.
You cant monitor 20 different charts with 20 different systems 24 hours a day.
You have to get past the "commercial" bots for $200, which are the bad jokes of the industry.
Learn to code! Spend the time to code and find your Grail. The more time you spend the better you will get at making winning systems.
I use mainly systems with multiple bots.
Multiple robots on the same account. But programmed to start and stop according to what other bots are doing,equity,etc. It gives huge returns and makes trading safer for me. I also have them on multiple accounts. I couldn't trade the way just 1 of these bots trade, the calculations are too fast.Most people can't code, though, and don't really have that kind of time. But they can take time to teach a skill that is like reading.
You mentioned yourself already, that you can't simply buy a robot. You have to tweak it - and on top of that, you have many robots that you trade with. Now, what happens when the robots don't function correctly? It means they will still create problems. This is like a human making a mistake.
Also, if these robots really did work like you say they work, then they would be popular and threads like this wouldn't exist. But since it takes a person with a specialized skill in coding to combine, use, and take various robots and make them work together in a way they are not built to do so off the shelf -- it's just easier to learn how to be an effective naked trader than relying on programs, code, updating the programs, and making the programs do what you want them to do.
For you, it probably works better to use programs, and that is perfectly your right and I wish you all the best. For others, a robot will never give the results they can achieve themselves....
But the thing to really understand is the market is not a robot. It's an entity manipulated by humans (ones that work in banks, that conclude currency prices and moves.)
The real reason most traders fail is we just don't have the up-to-date information on what the market is going to do, and what trades and moves are going to be made because we are not in the special group of people that control all of that. We just have simple indicators that read what the market has already done... so....
Most people can't code, though, and don't really have that kind of time. But they can take time to teach a skill that is like reading.
You mentioned yourself already, that you can't simply buy a robot. You have to tweak it - and on top of that, you have many robots that you trade with. Now, what happens when the robots don't function correctly? It means they will still create problems. This is like a human making a mistake.
Also, if these robots really did work like you say they work, then they would be popular and threads like this wouldn't exist. But since it takes a person with a specialized skill in coding to combine, use, and take various robots and make them work together in a way they are not built to do so off the shelf -- it's just easier to learn how to be an effective naked trader than relying on programs, code, updating the programs, and making the programs do what you want them to do.
For you, it probably works better to use programs, and that is perfectly your right and I wish you all the best. For others, a robot will never give the results they can achieve themselves....
But the thing to really understand is the market is not a robot. It's an entity manipulated by humans (ones that work in banks, that conclude currency prices and moves.)
The real reason most traders fail is we just don't have the up-to-date information on what the market is going to do, and what trades and moves are going to be made because we are not in the special group of people that control all of that. We just have simple indicators that read what the market has already done... so....The point is this.
You can spend all day sitting in front of a screen trading - or you can get your computer to do it for you.
Wouldnt it be better to spend a year or 2 making a really good computerized system, then to spend 40 years trading manually?
You might accept to lose a year or 2's profit while building your system, but in the end you come out way on top.
Wouldnt you rather earn 20% per month (for example) without having to work?