Need help indentifying indicator - page 58
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mp6140,
I will have to respectfully disagree with just about your entire post, but mainly your statement of "price action and indicators are just different forms of the same thing". This simply is not true. Lagging indicators like MACD, RSI, and stochastics along with all the rest of them display what price has done over a certain period of time in a format that is much more unclear and confusing than price action.
When you learn to interpret and trade off of simple one, two, and three bar price action setups you get entries that can be very accurate and that allow you to enter a position as close to when it actually starts moving as possible. Most lagging indicator systems get you into trades AFTER the move has already gotten well under way and is possibly about to reverse. The main difference with lagging indicators is that they SEEM like they SHOULD work because of their fancy names and complicated mathematical derivations, however nothing in the world will ever be able to beat the predictive capacity of simple price action setups. It has worked for years, since the 1700s in Japan, traders that stick around long enough eventually realize that simple methods like price chart reading are the ones that truly work because they give them the best and most clear representation of possible impending price direction.
traders using paypal
i lost all my money.
please give me your money for my daily life.
Paypal
gehe_los_gehe_los=at=yahoo.co.jp
I was not aware you HAD a life !
LOL
mp
i lost all my money.
please give me your money for my daily life.
Paypal
gehe_los_gehe_los=at=yahoo.co.jpI only lost my cruise ship money , once ; now i am looking into revenge with vengeance or learn the charting of forex but play with INTEL stock -- not too hard to spot the trading cycle there
you could prepare your case and tell the broker who take paypal or CC , that trading is tough and lure you into it
I only lost my cruise ship money , once ; now i am looking into revenge with vengeance or learn the charting of forex but play with INTEL stock -- not too hard to spot the trading cycle there
you could prepare your case and tell the broker who take paypal or CC , that trading is tough and lure you into it
by the way , there is a indicator (that I put a post reply during weekend) if you are into all BASIC GENERIC indicator, the output is one simple XO alike bar chart at the bottom, kind of intriguing as I do hate all the simple indicator given by MT4 -- take a look , all indicator that change its mind and repaint when trend change, that CODER put all into one, and hope that the OUTCOME is a good combo-indicator -- mother of all basic indicator
MP --- how about unbiased "looking" ?
Please understand that I have nothing against those who use price action in their trading BUT when you state that they are completely different, you are wrong simply because what you say can be shown so simply to be wrong.
Before launching into whatever will follow, please allow me to state that I dont really use indictors in what is considered the "normal" manner --- crossing a particular line, or its own signal line or any of the things that are well published about indicator usage is NOT what I DO, but rather I already know where my TP point is and use the indicators to CONFIRM that the price is topping at that point --- all you need do is put up a CCI and watch what it does as it reaches a resistance point, which is simply TOP at the same time the candle hits the same price --- NOW, the price will almost always retrace, as the pros sell into the buying by the "dumb money" and DOWN goes the price, either for a small retrace or a large one. Either way, the CCI has shown you EXACTLY where to exit, and since it also agrees with what had previously been a set exit price (set anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours beforehand, the indicators MUST be showing something decent and NOT lagging, as you suggest.
everyone speaks of LAGGING indicators as if that is a curse, along with things that "repaint" --- understand that "repaint" simply refers to DYNAMIC changes taking place in the market that are to be expected. If I have an ABSOLUTELY DEFINITE take profit point available to me as shown by the NEXT support or resistance area coming due, I will take that point as gospel and set my exit there --- IF THE DYNAMICS of the market are strong enough to provide momentum that EXCEEDS that point. I will have taken profit (in this case) early perhaps, but I will also re-enter on the inevitable retrace and note that the price will now go to the NEXT resistance point because thats where the "pros" wanted it to do ---- ANYWAY that takes care of "repainting" which simply tells you, like the candles, that MORE was available and taken --- with indicators, you can see that immediately and plan your next trade accordingly, but since that action was taking place WITHIN the present candle, only the fact that it closes at its high, or makes higher highs and then closes, which requires you to be constantly monitoring that candle, is what tells you what should come next.
When you speak of "3 bar setups" you are AUTOMATICALLY referring to LAGGING CANDLES because it takes the time of timeframe you are in for the candle to form --- ie: a 3 bar candle formation on a 15 minute chart takes 45 minutes to form --- I must respectfully submit that to be as LAGGING as anything possible !~ (LOL)
back to candles though --- with an OPEN MIND, watch a CCI or STOCH as the candle changes on any particular timeframe you wish --- THE CANDLE CHANGES AND SO DOES THE INDICATOR as they are both showing the SAME THING IN DIFFERING STYLES.
That some like a clean chart and feel it simpler to work with is beyond discussion, as its always "different strokes", but while the Japanese have used candles since the 1700's (your statement) the stock market has used the "lagging indicators" since the 1700's when wall street was simply a wall with a large tree where traders gathered.
If the "lagging indicators" had NO VALIDITY, they would have been thrown out many a year ago but THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED --- now traders are not stupid, and if they find something that makes the job simpler, they jump on it with all three feet, and while candles have certainly been accepted alongside the HLOC of the american style, there is NO great mystecism to their use as their is none to indicators --- IF THE PRICE MOVES UP, SO DOES THE TOP OF THE CANDLE AND SO DOES THE HEIGHT OF THE INDICATOR, AND BOTH AT EXACTLY THE SAME MOMENT !
I ask you to once again, in all honesty and openess, WATCH your candles AND watch a CCI ---- be honest and not repeating what youve been taught, which is to hate and belittle indicators as I do not teach others to belittle price action, BUT you will see that they are simply two peas out of the same pod, and DEPENDING on your likes or abilities and experience, there is SIMPLY NO DIFFERENCE !
Where candles have a popular although not universal use is in TRUE scalping, where you must enter and exit a long position and then dash madly for the short position, but MY WAY OF TRADING allows me to take BOTH THE LONG AND SHORT position at the same time and then go off to prepare Paella for my lady friends of an evening --- it does not FORCE ME to sit at the workstation and follow each vaguery and movement to make money (and by golly, I make a LOT !)
In LONGER TERM trades, such as the 30 min chart or higher, one has to WAIT FOR THE CANDLE TO DEVELOP before you are confirmed of a move or a reversal, and having to do that has to be the most "lagging" situation in the world, since a 30 minute candle takes, well . . . . . . . 30 minutes !
PLEASE understand that candles can be shown to be nothing but another graphic representation of price movement, as they will either start with a high or low, and move to the polar opposite at some time, and then usually settle out someplace in between (or close at the high or low, of course)
But the Japanese chose THIS way of representing price action and we chose another --- BOTH have been shown to produce profits for those who adhere to EITHER method and it is the wise trader indeed who DOES NOT disparage either method.
ESSENTIALLY, if YOU like it, then do it, but while you wont find me disparaging candle movement, I expect you to have the same intelligence in allowing that indicators do EXACTLY THE SAME THING (although many a "candle reader" had tried indicators at one time, only to find they couldnt figure them out and then turned to a bare chart, only to find they made little profit along the way )
enjoy and trade well, no matter how you do it
mp
mp6140,
I will have to respectfully disagree with just about your entire post, but mainly your statement of "price action and indicators are just different forms of the same thing". This simply is not true. Lagging indicators like MACD, RSI, and stochastics along with all the rest of them display what price has done over a certain period of time in a format that is much more unclear and confusing than price action.
When you learn to interpret and trade off of simple one, two, and three bar price action setups you get entries that can be very accurate and that allow you to enter a position as close to when it actually starts moving as possible. Most lagging indicator systems get you into trades AFTER the move has already gotten well under way and is possibly about to reverse. The main difference with lagging indicators is that they SEEM like they SHOULD work because of their fancy names and complicated mathematical derivations, however nothing in the world will ever be able to beat the predictive capacity of simple price action setups. It has worked for years, since the 1700s in Japan, traders that stick around long enough eventually realize that simple methods like price chart reading are the ones that truly work because they give them the best and most clear representation of possible impending price direction.MP -- ah stocks -- the meat and potatoes of life
when you learn how to chart and are doing well in forex, transfer that knowledge to the penny stocks and if you avoid the normal "pump and dump" or even get in on it but exit before 10:30 am edst, you will make out like a bandit in a very short timeframe.
JUST DONT HOLD ONE, no matter what, past a daytrade --- where very nice money can be made on "some" pennies for a few days run, it just aint worth the effort when you can simply take the "meat" of the trade in the morning and afternoon sessions, and leave the potatoes to all the others.
enjoy and trade well
mp
I only lost my cruise ship money , once ; now i am looking into revenge with vengeance or learn the charting of forex but play with INTEL stock -- not too hard to spot the trading cycle there you could prepare your case and tell the broker who take paypal or CC , that trading is tough and lure you into it
I have update my question for you here
https://www.mql5.com/en/forum/178395/page40
---
penny stock, long way to go, don't think so
why -- only very few of my DEMO MT4 software got very few blue chips
and I don't even know how to get a different software from australia site for normal US stock trading, whole different platform again
i.e. If I get a DEMO MT4 that got IBM and intel, and test my charting skill with MT4, I already very happy
MP -- BROCO (i dont remember what alpari has)
perhaps you should examine a Russian Broker known as "Broco" as they carry a load of blue chips as well as every conceiveable index and commodity you could wish for.
You can spend forever demoing the whole world and become king of pork bellies !
But on a serious note, allow that if and when you become extremely competent on the MT4 platform with forex, you will auomatically gravitate towards a much better charting platform with much more versatility because thats simply what happens when you reach the limits of MT4, and while these platforms will cost money, usually one simple trade will pay for the month.
enjoy and trade well
mp
I have update my question for you here
https://www.mql5.com/en/forum/178395/page40
---
penny stock, long way to go, don't think so
why -- only very few of my DEMO MT4 software got very few blue chips
and I don't even know how to get a different software from australia site for normal US stock trading, whole different platform again
i.e. If I get a DEMO MT4 that got IBM and intel, and test my charting skill with MT4, I already very happymp6140,
I see what you were trying to say in that extremely long post you made in response to my last one. However, I still don't think you are seeing my point perhaps. Yes, indicators do essentially show the same thing as price bars but in a different format. This is sort of exactly my point though. Why would anyone want to look at something ELSE besides PRICE movement to determine possible price direction? There are simple price action patterns that develop each day in the context of market movement that once a trader learns to spot can be a very stress free and accurate way to trade. I just don't get why you would want to have multiple lagging indicators all over your charts when you can just have nice clean price charts and learn how to trade effectively and easily off of such charts. What you are doing when you trade off pure price charts is cutting out the middle man (indicators), they simply are NOT necessary to be a successful trader. I think no matter what we can both agree that trading is difficult enough without intentionally adding things over top of our charts to make it more difficult.