Expert Advisor / Algo - Backtesting Scam

Moon Drops  

Hello,


I've encountered soo many EA's being sold at MQL5 that shows good backtesting result but always fail when used in Live environment.

I know there are discrepancies with spread, slippage and all others between backtest, demo and live but it's easy to see if the difference is too big so that gives us a reason to believe that there are EA/Algo's being sold here with rigged programs design to work with backtesting only and will screw you up when you use with Live accounts.

Is MQL5 doing anything about it? Are they scanning the software being sold for potential backtest scam? Or nobody really cares?


I am making this thread for inputs. 

konohamaru17  
I hope that they do something about this. Hopefully they make user show live account data of the bot, its not hard to make a bot that triples your account on the backtest.
Nor Azman Bin Ramli  

Don't believe a backtesting result without any proof from a live account. It's easy to create an EA and fit the strategy to the data point.

They will create an EA and show an impressive backtesting result, which is basically a selection bias from the best result of optimization, it's just a curve fitting.

If they can't risk their own money, it's a sign that the EAs can't be trusted.

Sergey Golubev  
Moon Drops:

Hello,


I've encountered soo many EA's being sold at MQL5 that shows good backtesting result but always fail when used in Live environment.

I know there are discrepancies with spread, slippage and all others between backtest, demo and live but it's easy to see if the difference is too big so that gives us a reason to believe that there are EA/Algo's being sold here with rigged programs design to work with backtesting only and will screw you up when you use with Live accounts.

Is MQL5 doing anything about it? Are they scanning the software being sold for potential backtest scam? Or nobody really cares?


I am making this thread for inputs. 

Some EAs may backtest differently compare with trading, and it is related to trading platform (MT4 or MT5) and how those EAs were coded by the sellers.
So, it is not a scam.

  • If you bought EA from your relative, or from your friends, or from the persons who are always on the forum for the long time - so you will receive the help and explanation.
  • If you bought EA from anyone so it is your risk, and your risk should not be spreaded to the community.

It is financial mql5 portal, and no one trust anyone and no one believes in anything.
But there are some users who are buying anything from anyone and do not care about their money, and after their mistake - they are trying to turn their risk to all of us. So, we all should be against those kind of guys who are turning their personal mistakes/risks to the people/company which have nothing to do with it.


Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies

Recommend your Solutions about Irresponsibility of Some Developers and Sellers.

Sergey Golubev, 2021.01.14 09:18

  • If you bought the product from your friend or from your relative or from very active users of this forum so you can fix anything related with the sellers who are responsible about what they are seller (and because you both know each other for the long time).
  • But if you bought something from "anyone" just because of have a lot of money so - sorry: it is your risk, and this risk can not be turned to anyone else.

----------------

I am posting this suggestion all the time on the forum. It is related to the Signals, the Market, and to the Freelance as well - 

Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies

...

Sergey Golubev, 2020.01.16 06:35

There is one rule which some people follow:
subscribe to the signal or create an order in Freelance or purchase the product from the user/seller/coder/provider you know in person or you know by activity on the forum.

Because if you purchased something so I may ask:
"Do you know the seller in person, or you are familiar with him on this forum?"
If you say: "Not" so it will be very strange case for me ...

Just my optinion.

----------------

There are a lot of professional and honest users/coders on the forum, and some of them are very active on this forum helping to the other people and replying on the forum posts/requests.

Always choose the person you know in this forum (who is very active here), and you will have much less problems with anything.

Just my opinion sorry (because I am not a coder, and I am using Freelance and Market as well).



Sergey Golubev  
Moon Drops:
...

Is MQL5 doing anything about it? Are they scanning the software being sold for potential backtest scam? Or nobody really cares?

...

It was about responsibility.
I mean - it was about the following: if you made a mistake with buying EA, but you are turning this responsibility to all of us or to MetaQuotes so it is completely illegal.

---------------- 

And there is the rules (about what MQL5/MetaQuotes are checking for EAs before the users are selling those EA):

Rules of Using the Market Service

The Administration of the Market service does not guarantee the profitability of Expert Advisors (EAs, trading robots), as well as the correctness of calculations in custom technical indicators purchased through the Market service.

------------


The Product must not:
  • guarantee, promise or hint at profits through the Product name, logo, screenshots or description;

------------

    Expert Advisors and indicators undergo automatic test in the Strategy Tester on the historical price data. The Product is formally checked for known programming errors. Passing the test successfully does not mean that the results stated in the Product description will be obtained in the future. Neither test results, nor Product description provided by the Seller guarantee profit or error-free Product operation.

    ------------

    Neither the Seller nor the Administration shall be liable for loss of profits in connection with the use of the Product received through the Market service.


    mfx123  
    Past result does not guarantee future profits.
    Sergey Golubev  
    mfx123:
    Past result does not guarantee future profits.

    To make it shorter:

    ===========

    The Market system is automatically checking the EAs before selling for possible programming errors only.
    For programming errors only (it is from the Market rules):

    The Product is formally checked for known programming errors.

    Any other things (description of the EA, backtesting, and so on) are related to believing: will we believe in this seller or not.

    There is one thread in Russian forum where the users are talking about the techniques the sellers are using to produce good backtesting results (this is technical thread): How  they fool with MT5 robots from the market?
    ----------------

    But if someone (topic starter/OP for example) are looking to get some more guarantee so the best guarantee is the following: the seller should be well-known user/person for our community forum.
    Because if the user bought the EA from the Market so we may ask this user:
    "Did you invest with this seller because the seller is your relative? your best friend? Not? Ok .. he is well-known user of this forum helping the people a lot? Not? ..so why did you buy this EA in this case? Seems you have a lot money ..."
    ----------------

    It is what I wanted to say on this thread.

    Moon Drops  
    Sergey Golubev:

    It was about responsibility.
    I mean - it was about the following: if you made a mistake with buying EA, but you are turning this responsibility to all of us or to MetaQuotes so it is completely illegal.

    ---------------- 

    And there is the rules (about what MQL5/MetaQuotes are checking for EAs before the users are selling those EA):

    Rules of Using the Market Service

    The Administration of the Market service does not guarantee the profitability of Expert Advisors (EAs, trading robots), as well as the correctness of calculations in custom technical indicators purchased through the Market service.

    ------------


    The Product must not:
    • guarantee, promise or hint at profits through the Product name, logo, screenshots or description;

    ------------

      Expert Advisors and indicators undergo automatic test in the Strategy Tester on the historical price data. The Product is formally checked for known programming errors. Passing the test successfully does not mean that the results stated in the Product description will be obtained in the future. Neither test results, nor Product description provided by the Seller guarantee profit or error-free Product operation.

      ------------

      Neither the Seller nor the Administration shall be liable for loss of profits in connection with the use of the Product received through the Market service.



      I'm not blaming anyone, just asking if the programs are being checked for potential backtest rigging before it gets published. (I guess that's a No)

      I know the risk when buying these EAs and I know past performance does not guarantee future results.


      What I meant with a backtest scam is something like this:   EAs coded to Open a Buy or Sell at a particular date and time and close at profit from history

      Sergey Golubev  
      Moon Drops:


      I'm not blaming anyone, just asking if the programs are being checked for potential backtest rigging before it gets published. (I guess that's a No)

      I know the risk when buying these EAs and I know past performance does not guarantee future results.


      What I meant with a backtest scam is some like this:   EAs coded to Open a Buy or Sell at a particular date and time and close at profit from history

      EAs can be coded in any way, for example, if EA is using open bar together with high/low of the bar so the backtesting will be different from real trading (in MT4).
      And for many other reasons (especially for MT4).

      If you found some case related to "close at profit from history" so you can write to the service desk (with your proofs for them to reproduce this case), and if so - the service desk will ban the seller together with his broker from the Market forever (example: some brokers were already banned from the signal service, many sellers were already banned from the Market, some external VPS providers were banned from the Market).

      ----------------

      I just reacted on the following your sentence:

      Is MQL5 doing anything about it? Are they scanning the software being sold for potential backtest scam? Or nobody really cares?

      Example.
      If you bought "anything" from "anyone" and do not care about your money, and after that you are saying - "hi guys, I did mistake, but I do not want to be responsible for this mistake - I want you to be responsible for it!" - it is illegal.

      That is why I made several posts on your thread.

      ----------------
      You can read this thread (with in-built translation feature located on the every post of the thread) about some techniques which some sellers are using to produce good backtesting results (it may be good to know about what to check before buying the EAs, and which backtesting period to use to backtest EA before buying it from the Market):

      How  they fool with MT5 robots from the market?
      Moon Drops  
      Sergey Golubev:

      EAs can be coded in any way, for example, if EA is using open bar together with high/low of the bar so the backtesting will be different from real trading (in MT4).
      And for many other reasons (especially for MT4).

      If you found some case related to "close at profit from history" so you can write to the service desk (with your proofs for them to reproduce this case), and if so - the service desk will ban the seller together with his broker from the Market forever (example: some brokers were already banned from the signal service, many sellers were already banned from the Market, some external VPS providers were banned from the Market).

      ----------------

      I just reacted on the following your sentence:

      Example.
      If you bought "anything" from "anyone" and do not care about your money, and after that you are saying - "hi guys, I did mistake, but I do not want to be responsibly for my this personal mistake - I want you to be responsible for it!" - it is illegal.

      That is why I made several posts on your thread.

      ----------------
      You can read this thread (with in-built translation feature located on the every post of the thread) about some techniques which some sellers are using to produce good backtesting results (it m ay be good to know about what to check before buying the EAs):

      How  they fool with MT5 robots from the market?


      No, I am not blaming mql5 for your service, your website is actually very good! And I am profitable with alot of EAs I bought here already.

      I just thought it would be better if the programs gets more filtered to prevent any programming scams from happening.

      But yeah at the end of the day it is Buy at your own risk thing.

      AL MOOSAWI ABDULLAH JAFFER BAQER  
      Moon Drops:


      No, I am not blaming mql5 for your service, your website is actually very good! And I am profitable with alot of EAs I bought here already.

      I just thought it would be better if the programs gets more filtered to prevent any programming scams from happening.

      But yeah at the end of the day it is Buy at your own risk thing.

      Hello Moon Drops.

      I would suggest using an external tick data software while back testing. It would solve the issue 100%

      I used to have the same issue, wonderful back test, but after implementing it on real account I just see losses!

      The issue is not from the programmer, the issue arises from the quality of back test performed. 

      Usually you get very low modeling quality , either N/A, 20% or 25% quality. They all gives you vogue picture.

      On the other hand, using 99.9% tick data software's allows you to get the exact results, and you will be amazed that the back test will equal the reality.

      This happens because now you can get 99.9% modeling quality + variable spread as the normal trading condition + applying slippage + delays in execution. This results in a superb back testing results.

      Please do so, and you will be satisfied and have your issue solved.

      You can find the modeling quality as attached from the report after the back testing is completed (MT4)

      Files:
      Reason: