The market is a controlled dynamic system. - page 203

 

Alexei, you said it yourself. God does not play dice. There is no need to simplify the obvious.

 
MetaDriver: Generally speaking Korzybski and Bateson & Company have made a good attempt to steer scientific thought in the right direction. In terms of 'how to think' about these things. And how they can be described.

You mean this:

We now know quite definitely that the ancient question of whether the mind is immanent or transcendent can be resolved in favour of immanence. This answer is more economical with respect to explanatory entities than any answer that leans towards transcendence, so it has at least negative support for the principle of Occam's Razor.

?

 
tara:

Alexei, you said it yourself. God does not play dice. There's no need to simplify the obvious.

I think of him better than that. I think that's all he does. // And he almost always wins. ;) ;)

// And by the way - he has a razor, too. Much more dangerous and ruthless. -- Survival.

 
Mathemat:

You mean this:

?

That too. Bateson has repeatedly spelled it out and demonstrated the non-locality of mind, and at the same time its inseparability from matter. Mind (Spirit) / Matter -- an artificial (invented) distinction. People are such rascals: first they invent abstractions - to separate phenomena from the phenomenological universe; then they name them - for the convenience of communication (before this place is great, but after...); then they begin to believe in them as elements of reality (supposedly really existing in the phenomenological world); then they begin to write them with capital letters (to give weight to their favourite notions); and then they begin to oppose them so that it becomes more convenient to divide into teams, whipping infidels over their heads with Loud Words (to begin with)... etc. :)

About the cybernetic non-locality of mind (experienced by some prophets as the Omnipresent Deity?), and about the background of this stable (but unfounded) distinction between Mind and Matter, is (imha) best described here: FORM, Matter and DIFFERENCE

 
MetaDriver:

>>> And about that too. Bateson has repeatedly chewed on his fingers and demonstrated the non-locality of mind, and at the same time its inseparability from matter. Mind (Spirit) / Matter -- an artificial (invented) distinction. People are such rascals: first they invent abstractions - to separate phenomena from the phenomenological universe; then they name them - for the convenience of communication (before this place is great, but after...); then they begin to believe in them as elements of reality (supposedly really existing in the phenomenological world); then they begin to write them with capital letters (to give weight to their favourite notions); and then they begin to oppose them so that it becomes more convenient to divide into teams, whipping infidels over their heads with Loud Words (to begin with)... etc. :)

In general, the cybernetic non-locality of mind (experienced by some prophets as the Omnipresent Deity?), as well as the background of this stable (but unfounded) distinction between Mind and Matter, is best described (imha) here: FORM, Matter and DIFFERENCE


I have some questions:

What are you going to do with it all? What is your local goal? To wander aimlessly in the endless sleeves of your consciousness while dragging others along is not particularly interesting. Although... Maybe it's the endorphins for the sake of banal emotional self-satisfaction. )))

Are your motives selfish or do you think/see that it is for the common good (altruism) ? For the common good, your attempts are too pathetic. After all, an ant can't move a mountain just by burying its forehead in it. What does an ant have to do to achieve its goal?

P.S. >>> Nothing, can be a cause or prove otherwise. ))

 
Mathemat:

1. it is only quantum-mechanical representations that are a model of the world.

2. Slava, have you seen reality yourself? Mankind has yet to see anything other than modelling it.


Alexei, in this case past and future are subjective. As many people/models as there are pasts.) It's like blind pundits groping an elephant from different angles. One says a tree, another a snake a third something else. But it was an elephant, not a bunch of different possibilities.

Lack of data and quality of predictive models is not reality (subjective reality in the extreme). Therefore the past is data obtained by receptors, sensors etc. The same video recording, for example. When one starts to draw conclusions/modelling from this recording, it's really a web of possibilities. imha :)

 
MetaDriver: Anyway, about cybernetic nonlocality of mind (which some prophets referred to as the Omnipresent Deity?) and about the reasons of this stable (but groundless) division of the observable into Mind and Matter is (imha) best described here: FORM, SOURCE AND DIFFERENCE

Very interesting, yes. If we think of Mind as something to do with creation (the creation of meaningful differences that make a difference).

However, his example of a blind man with a cane is not convincing at all:

The cane is the conductor along which the transformations of difference are transmitted.

The cane is a conductor along which not transformations of difference are transmitted, but ordinary mechanical vibrations. Their transformation into transformations of difference (if we exclude hearing, seeing, smelling) starts exactly from the skin of the fingers, in which "sensibles" - nerves - are locally located.

In order for the cane to transmit transformations, the creature must have been located precisely in the cane. It is not: the cane is not a living organism, but a dead one. And it has only one pleroma in it.

Perhaps the reason is something else:

Under the influence of LSD I, like many others, experienced the disappearance of the separation between the self and the music I was listening to.

If I had taken LSD, I might have felt the same. But so far I'm not aware of such an experience.

In short, Bateson hasn't convinced me yet. But I understand that in the mid 50's and up to about 70's people were fascinated by cybernetics and attributed many possibilities to it that were uncharacteristic of it. I myself once read several popular-philosophical treatises on near-cybernetic topics.

P.S. Even simpler: Bateson writes the cane into the creature world only on the grounds that it is held by a human being. This is probably a violation of Occam's Razor, after all :)

Itis not very interesting to wander aimlessly in the endless sleeves of your consciousness, dragging others along with you. Although... Maybe it's the endorphins for the sake of banal emotional self-satisfaction. )))
Endorphins, what else... all the junkies around here.
 
Mathemat:

...

Endorphins, what else... all the junkies are here.

Not just here, but everywhere. ) After all, emotional self-satisfaction is precisely the incentive to achieve the goal. So I wonder, what is the goal?

The LSD experience is interesting, but it doesn't answer the questions that aren't answered (or are very non-obvious and buried very deeply). LSD just opens the door to more of those questions. I think you can only get answers to questions by interacting with the world, not just reasoning/thinking about it.

If the reasoning/thinking has no purpose, then everything is clear. The only explanation then for all this wandering is the search for purpose.

 
Avals: Alexei, in this case past and future are subjective. As many people/models as there are pasts.) It's like blind pundits groping an elephant from different sides. One says a tree, another a snake a third something else. But it was an elephant, not a bunch of different possibilities.

Lack of data and quality of predictive models is in no way reality (subjective reality in the extreme). Therefore the past is data obtained by receptors, sensors, etc. The same video recording, for example. When one starts to make conclusions/modelling on the basis of this recording, it is really a web of possibilities. imha :)

Come on, Slava, I was just imagining and trying to suggest that all this is not a subjective reality, but an objective one.

The collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics, according to Copenhagen interpolation, has long been recognised as an objective reality (within this model of the world).

 

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