mt5/mt4? - page 10

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Renat:

That's a strange conclusion to draw. Every year we have made it harder for experts to enter the competition and have kept out the pips. This has naturally led to the use of longer term strategies.

The trading results of 10,000 -> 54,000 in 3 months are great.

Renat this is just a statement of the obvious, not a conclusion. Everything a trader needs to be successful in trading is in MT4. And the end result of the trade will rather depend on conditions, volatility, etc. and not on the platform. What do you think, if we do two parallel Championships with similar conditions on MT4 and MT5 who would win? I think success would be equally likely. My point A is not a minus for MT5 as such. What makes it a minus is point B. Believe it or not my 3000 lines of code from point B? Put the MT5 functionality on MT5: 

Print (Open[1]);

and see the increase in "letters and figures". OOP is progress, of course. But the progress, simplification and usability for complex programs, the gains will be evident there, but they are beyond the grasp of an average platform user like me. And for simple programs? Example above. Since there is no proven relationship between profitability and complexity, my conclusion on points A + B follows.

Renat:

And that's why it's up to us to make decisions, creating new features long before anyone asks for them.

(It does not matter if we need them or not, and will they ask for them? The surgeon says: "You also had liposuction, a breast augmentation -.... and a penis."

Renat:

The complexity of the system and the demands for simplicity are such that you have to remove all the dirty work and do everything automatically and transparently. A trader in MetaTrader 5 does not even need to think about any history uploads - just open what you want of the available ones and everything will work, including testers, cludes, etc.

Trading in general is a "dirty", mundane job. No need to think about loading history? What's there to think about: F2 -> load - don't like it? Import -> select the file you like. You have to think in MT5. Because these "automatic" quotes may be a mess. And how to check it all quickly (of course you can think of something) and how to correct it (you won't think of anything, and most importantly, what do you do then?!?). The approach of MT5 to working with quotes may be good in some ideal conditions of spherical vacuum, but not in realities... For me so far the pros and cons of such a solution unambiguously outweigh the cons.

Renat:

I guess the problem is that you haven't used MT5 for a long time (although you are talking about half a year).

I've been working on it longer, albeit with a little zeal. Although, may be my personal problem with MT5 is that I have everything I need in MT4?

I'm not going to make any more debates, I'm going to try to fight with my opponents, I won't. "The Giraffe is too big, he knows better".

 
Figar0:

Renat is simply stating the obvious, not drawing conclusions. Everything a trader needs for successful trading is in MT4. And the final result of the trade will rather depend on the conditions, volatility, etc. than on the platform. What do you think, if we do two parallel Championships with similar conditions on MT4 and MT5 who would win? I think success would be equally likely. My point A is not a minus for MT5 as such. What makes it a minus is point B. Believe it or not my 3000 lines of code from point B? Translate to MT5 functionality:

The original statements don't make it correct.

I will translate and explain. It's not complicated at all, here's the code:

    Print (Open[1]);   // MQL4

   MqlRates rates[];
   if(CopyRates((Symbol(),Period(),0,16,rates)==16)
      Print("Open: ",rates[0].open);

In MQL4, each direct access of the type Open[index] turns into a deep pass to the chart buffer that in case of multiple accesses(and EAs with a single access to the chart history are rare), gives a serious brake. After all, it usually goes Open[1], High[0], High[1], Low[0], etc.

In case of MQL5, you can copy a whole block of history to a local buffer in one command and then get the fastest possible access to it (do not forget that everything is converted to native x86/x64 code). This gives a huge advantage to developers when they have to deal with massive computations. This access to history saves a lot of memory of the MQL5 subsystem itself, as the replica of the current chart for an Expert Advisor does not have to be completely removed, as it is done in MQL4. Note that in my example 16 bars including OHLC are replicated.


And see the increase in "letters and figures". Of course, OOP is progress. But the progress, simplification and usability for complex programs, there the gain would be obvious, but they are beyond the grasp of an average platform user like me. And for simple programs? Example above. Since there is no proven relationship between profitability and complexity, my conclusion on points A + B.

The output is fundamentally wrong.

By the way, there are ready-made classes and libraries for simple programs. The same CTrade removes a lot of questions on trading operations. The same goes for the libraries, without them and without OOP you are exhausted when writing large programs in C/MQL4 style.


(Regardless of whether they need or not, and whether even will ask?) I recall an anecdote: A patient comes out of anesthesia after surgery to remove the appendix. The surgeon says: "You also had liposuction, a breast augmentation -.... and a penis."

Tradig in general is a 'dirty', routine job. No need to think about downloading the story? What's there to think about: F2 -> upload - don't like it? Import -> select a file of what you like. You have to think in MT5. Because these "automatic" quotes may be a mess. And how to check it all quickly (of course you can think of something) and how to correct it (you won't think of anything, and most importantly, what do you do then?!?). The approach of MT5 to working with quotes may be good in some ideal conditions of spherical vacuum, but not in reality... For me so far the pros and cons of such a solution unambiguously outweigh the cons.

Although, may be my personal problem with MT5 is that I have everything I need in MT4?

I`m not going to say anything more, I`m afraid the giraffe is too big, he knows better" (from now on).

You are wrong even in F2.

But I understand human psychology. You can still beat your chest after 11 years and use Windows XP, which half of our users do.

 

Comparing version 4 and 5 of the trading terminal reminds me of comparing DOS and the first version of Windows. How easy it is to work in Norton, everything flies - but here (Windows) there are only brakes. But the hardware has evolved and now no one is asking to go back to DOS.

 
DC2008:

Comparing version 4 and 5 of the trading terminal reminds me of comparing DOS and the first version of Windows. How easy it is to work in Norton, everything flies - but here (Windows) there are only brakes. But the hardware has evolved and now no one is asking to go back to DOS.

Actually both MT4 and MT5 fly equally well.

But MT5 (especially x64 version) flies further, is more comfortable and carries more load.

 

We are looking at the terminal from some different angles. It feels like some people don't distinguish between the terminal and the visual studio. I hope I am not alone.

 
Renat:

But I understand human psychology. You can still beat your chest after 11 years and use Windows XP, which half of our users do.

DC2008:

Comparing version 4 and 5 of the trading terminal reminds me of comparing DOS and the first version of Windows. How easy it is to work in Norton, everything flies - and here (Windows) is only brakes. But hardware has been developing and now there is no one asking to go back to DOS.

I wish I could believe you gentlemen! At the moment I'm not worried about technical advantages of mt5 over mt4, ideological, approach, paradigms, etc., but about a banal popularity rating. And it's not just because I'm of Facebook generation))) If working from the terminal was directly with primebroker, I wouldn't "give a damn" about what the crowd thinks of the platform, as regardless of prevailing opinion, I'd use whatever I wanted as much as I wanted. But the reality is different. The poor ones work through DC unfortunately. And brokerage companies use platforms based on the popularity rating in particular, plus the software was easier and the "Valera-loader" looking for "work on the Internet" could learn to "effectively" trade in a week, and the "special opportunities" were for brokerage companies. And the problem is that as soon as the rating will fall, brokerage companies will not work with such a platform, and then what? We will have to choose either Rumus or Ninja.

Frankly speaking, I chose mt5 and mql5 except for the fact, that they are C++ and in case of fundamental reversal of popularity trend, I can easily switch to "pure" algotrading, that is platform-independent, for example to HFT and so on. Such craft, even in the absence of talents to invent strategies themselves, pure coding, costs 150-400K$ a year, that is, the coefficient compared to usual C++ coding is 3-5 times. Well, if strategies learn to invent, if there is such talent, then open space.

I can assume that DC strategists reason in the same way, only from the opposite direction. They need users, so that God forbid, there was not even a thought, much less opportunities, to do business past their service. And C++ is dangerous. It's not in DC's interest to train users to do that. And they will be very glad that users themselves are turning away from a new, potentially much more powerful product because of misunderstandings, like disabling custom quotes. But if this continues, the MT5 brand will be destroyed and it will be very difficult to stop this process, it's like a snowball effect.

If I were MQ I would pay special attention to this. In this case popularity is unfortunately more important than product features, just like in show business. At least when it comes to trading via DC.

PS:My opinion should not be taken into account, because I use mt4\mt5 terminals for 3 months only, and even then 80% of mt5 and mql5, 4th mql has not touched at all. But I haven't seen such open swings with opinions on software versions yet)))

 

All this reasoning about the intrinsic advantages of one software over another is beyond me. Thanks to MK for letting me play with new software before it is fully implemented, but if my broker doesn't offer new software yet, the choice for me and other users is quite simple: until mt5 is gogoed, we will use mt4 until the broker stops offering it. Otherwise there is no initiative to create trading systems for mt5.

 

Alex Bondar, you have mixed everything up and drawn surprising conclusions.

The brokers have massively used the direct execution in the ECN and at prime brokers. If you need direct execution there is no problem.

Unfortunately, the management of most companies is not much different from the approach demonstrated by gpwr. Everyone prefers to come exclusively to a ready-made and warmed-up market.

But such is the reality of introducing new products to a market filled (fortunately, by us). By the way, you are just at the main resource that builds the new MetaTrader 5 market.

 
Renat:

Alex Bondar, you've made a mess of everything and draw some surprising conclusions.

The brokers use direct execution in ECN and at prime brokers. If you need direct execution there is no problem.

Unfortunately, the management of most companies is not much different from the approach demonstrated by gpwr. Everyone prefers to come exclusively to a ready-made and warmed-up market.

But such is the reality of introducing new products to a market filled (fortunately, by us). By the way, you are just at the main resource that builds the new MetaTrader 5 market.

Great! I'm all for mt5! I'm interested to hear all the opinions about it, because a lot depends on them.

But as they say from the mouth of a baby speaks the truth, sometimes ... very occasionally)))

 

It seems to me that there is a vicious circle here. Brokers are waiting for their clients to ask for MT5 in droves. They are capitalists after all: why should they spend money on something if the demand is small and does not justify the investment. And clients are waiting for this new platform to be offered by their broker. Otherwise, why would they waste their time studying the new platform if it's not yet offered, and the old one (mt4) is satisfying them. So they, brokers and their clients, are waiting for the first step. Meanwhile, small DCs are starting to offer MT5 in the hope of pulling clients from big and immobile brokers. Let's see how long it takes for these dinosaurs to see the threat from the smaller ones.

However, if mt5 had any revolutionary innovations before mt4 without which there is no way to create a profitable system, the clients would have been drawn to the new platform sooner or later in the hope of higher profits. I'm not talking about the inner workings of the two platforms, but about the benefits they offer to the user on the outside. There was an attempt to create a neural engine to show the capabilities of the new platform, but it's still there. And it wouldn't be a revolutionary innovation since virtually any neural engine such as FANN can be attached to code in mt4 through DLL and besides it is very fast (in C++ version). By the way, comparing DOS and Windows is wrong here. Still, there was a revolutionary leap, which I as a user do not see in mt5.

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