Discussing conflicts between programmers and customers. A discussion of ambiguous situations between the programmer and the client, and a rating of the most conflicted programmer performers. - page 25
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If you are wrong, it is only that the prices are low and cannot cover unforeseen costs. So you have to raise the price. Which of you customers are paying $100 per day to a programmer - this is kind of a normal rate for a programmer (and not even normal, but low).
A good example, you can pay 100 quid a day. But be prepared to work 8 hours, be prepared that the customer will be standing behind you and bend you on any pretext, be ready to redo 50 times what you don't like and be ready not to get paid if the customer thinks that you are a bad employee. Then yes, why wouldn't a good worker get paid 100 quid a day.
You shouldn't compare freelancing to a regular programmer's job. The contractor works when, how and where it suits him. He chooses the job according to his taste and the desired pay. Deadlines are set by himself. He may refuse to work if he wants to.
It doesn't cost $100 a day. It costs exactly as much as you have agreed with the customer.
1. good example, you can pay 100 quid a day. But be prepared to work 8 hours, be prepared that the customer will stand behind your back and bend you on any occasion, be prepared to redo 50 times what you didn't like and be prepared not to get paid if the customer thinks you're a bad worker. Then yes, why wouldn't a good worker get paid 100 quid a day.
2. There is no need to compare freelancing with a regular programmer's job. The contractor works when, how and where it suits him. He chooses the work according to his taste and the desired pay. Deadlines are set by himself. He may refuse to work if he wants to.
It doesn't cost $100 a day. It costs exactly as much as you have agreed with the customer.
1. interesting thoughts, did you have to work that hard?
2. No need to compare, at work a person gets paid for his presence there, and in freelancing solely for the work performed, so, logically, freelancing should pay more. At work, you usually work for three hours a day and spend the rest of the time being present and drinking tea.
What do you think?
Question upon question? :) The version is as follows: they are to blame themselves. Competition does not give the opportunity to raise rates, and the absence of collusion does not allow to accustom the customers to the "normal" cost of a programmer's work in this market.
It may be their fault, but they can also realise their guilt:)
A question to a question? :) The version is as follows: you are to blame yourself. Competition does not give the opportunity to raise the rates, and the absence of collusion does not let the customers accustom to the "normal" price of a programmer's work hour in this market.
95% of customers are perfectly normal. These customers understand that work must be paid for, that the TOR is drawn up by the customer and the customer is responsible for its content, and that additions to the TOR that are unclear or unclear must be paid for. There is a normal dialogue with such customers without tensions and excesses. Such customers do not create threads with a topic like this from time to time.
All issues related to low estimates of programmers' labor in the service are raised only after 5% of abnormal customers begin to whine that they were white and fluffy cheated.
But at the same time, if you observe the service Jobs, each programmer has its own price level. One does it for $10, another for $ 30-40, the third from 50, the fourth from 100-150. There is no competition in the Jobs service. Because there are only a few programmers who can really perform professionally and at a high level.
Yes there are shortcomings in the service Jobs, but these shortcomings are gradually identified and eliminated. The average price of work in the service is only growing. If they started with an average price of $ 15-20, now it is $ 50.
1. interesting thoughts, was it you who had to work so hard?
2. There is no need to compare, at work one gets paid for their presence there and freelancing solely for the work done, so logically freelancing should pay more. At work, you usually work for three hours a day and spend the rest of the time being there and drinking tea.
1. Supervising the programming department.
2. You seem to have some Soviet ideas about work :) And about freelancing - there is a demand, there is a supply.Now on the service work, the demand for writing an EA is less than proposals for its creation, hence the prices. Also take into account programmers who are not at the top and who also want to earn. As soon as the situation changes and more customers come, the market demand and supply will resolve itself. Prices will normalise and reflect values that are closer to reality.
But in order for customers to come, you have to take care of the existing ones now. At the moment, the attitude is mostly neglectful, and there is often unjustified overpricing for, for example, mql4 is free, etc. etc.
The customer sees this, and so does the attitude.
And there is no competition in the Jobs service. Because there are only a handful of programmers who can really perform professionally and at a high level.
Yes, there are shortcomings in the Jobs service, but these shortcomings are gradually identified and eliminated. The average price of work in the service is only growing. If they started with an average price of $ 15-20, now it is $ 50.
I am not going to argue here, because I do not know the situation from the "inside". But the test of this situation can serve a simple maneuver: try to agree all together that for a job worth less than 100 credits for a certain period of time (or any other solid-money criteria) - for such cheap work you will not undertake in principle. And we will understand from the echoes of events in the "Jobs" service, whether you have competition or not.
I should add: the subtopic began with the fact that there is a certain normal level of programmer's salary. So I propose to try to bring your rates up to that level, regardless of who or how much they agree to charge now.
I am not going to argue here, because I do not know the situation from "inside". But the test of this situation can serve a simple maneuver: try to agree together that for a job worth less than 100 credits for a certain period of time (or any other solid-money criteria) - for such cheap work you will not undertake in principle. And we will use the echoes of events in the "Jobs" service to see if you have competition or not.
Why negotiate with everyone? There is a bazaar, there is a shop, there is a boutique. It is foolish for boutiques to negotiate prices with the bazaar. Every programmer is capable of estimating how much his personal labour costs. Check it easily - follow the requests in the service and look at the circle of programmers in the application "<$10". - It is different from the circle of programmers bid ">100$". At the moment, will not be a normal programmer to do 100-doll. work for $ 30-doll.
There is a perception that there are more customers than programmers - this is completely wrong. Do not forget that for a programmer service Jobs is not the only income, and the programmer is not hungry to pounce on any order. If there is an order, it's good. No order is also OK.
This 5% of customers think that they are a select few and provide an invaluable service that "from the bounty" give an order to a programmer on a "competitive basis". In reality, the customer chooses from what is offered. And not every customer is offered the best.
Yedelkin:
Try to agree all together that for a job worth less than 100 credits over a certain period of time (or any other solid monetary criterion) - you will not take such cheap work in principle.
It is impossible in principle. Agree is possible, but it involves the sequence of orders. That is, there is a new order and there is the next in line programmer, as in a taxi)
Well, if seriously, everyone's qualifications are different, the rating, too. In such a situation, programmers not from the top, will lose all chances to earn. And they will be forced to undercut prices again in order to do anything at all.