any hedge tool or ea to minimize any loose position has open by another ea - page 3

[el_looto]

Yopie Prismananda Aringgi:

I actually using hedging strategy for more than 11 month and it works for me.

Don't hedging if you're not clearly understand how the characteristics of the pair you trade.

It works for me, but maybe it doesn't suit for you.

Yopie, show us [with mathematics] that hedging yields a better result than just 'going flat' or partial closes.

Like this:

[Hedge]

enter long at 1.0000 (net 1 lot long)

price rise to 1.1000 (1000 pips gain)

hedge at 1.1000 with 1 lot short (net flat)

price falls to 1.0500 (no loss: 500 pip gain from the short, 500 pip loss from the long)

remove hedge at 1.0500 (net 1 lot long)

price rise to 1.1000 (500 pips gain)

close for 1500 pips profit

[No Hedge]

enter long at 1.000 (1 lot long)

close at 1.1000 (1000 pips gain)

re enter long at 1.0500 (1 lot long)

close at 1.1000 (500 pips gain)

total profit 1500 pips.

Its almost like hedging does not improve the strategy....

[Yopie Prismananda Aringgi]

Sorry it's just my opinion & my experience,

you know how to proove that i'm not lying.

And dont ask me about mathematics because I'm not expert on it :)

Good luck

[AIRAT SAFIN]

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The official position of MetaQuotes Software Corp.

"We have added the second accounting system — hedging,

which expands the possibilities of retail Forex traders"

https://www.metatrader5.com/en/releasenotes/terminal/1325

This is the answer to "Some people will never understand"

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According to the MQL5 documentation:

Hegded positions are oppositely directed positions of one symbol

https://www.mql5.com/en/docs/constants/environment_state/marketinfoconstants

No more and no less

When the price moves against the trader

then the EA can open an opposite / hedged position

They can open initial positions by signals of higher timeframes,

and hedging positions with signals of lower timeframes

Even when the initial position has a positive profit

This is the answer

to "Hedging a profitable position ?" and

to "I don't know why you have mentioned TF ..."

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Once a mathematician and programmer came to a banker

And they say that

mathematically there is no difference between

separate accounting for loans and deposits of the same client

and a consolidated one with a single effective interest rate

So he is very mistaken when he has many accounts for one client

and many payment schedules

The banker said

"Firstly

Instead of a clear and transparent business logic,

you offer a mishmash of completely different banking products

Secondly

You can never precisely determine the time value of money

This is a well-known problem

associated with the net value of cash flows at different points in time"

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A trader was present during the conversation and then said

"Same thing with trading

Today I have the set of independent trading strategies on different timeframes

They have completely different clear and transparent trading logics

And thanks to the hedging system I have a great opportunity

to set individual Stop Loss and Take Profit levels for each open position

https://www.metatrader5.com/en/trading-platform/trading

I am offered to mix them

They said "This is simple mathematics"

They said "You would have yet better results without hedging"

I said "Not a fact for many reasons"

They said "Please give us your reasons"

I said

Trading is not simple mathematics

Firstly, for example,

just try to think about the different order filling policies

The results of every sending order are always unpredictable

especially in cases of of partial filling

Secondly

I widely use time factors in my trading strategies and dynamics factors

And each position may be independently closed by signal CLOSE with these factors

Both the initial position and the hedging position

independently in different time points

When you close the initial position instead of hedging this logic does not work

You need to change the logic to fit the ideas of mathematics

But

Tests of EA with current logic show results with hedging better than without it

It is an easily verifiable fact

Everything else is not a fact

And we do not live by assumptions"

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[Alain Verleyen]

AIRAT SAFIN:
...

What is all of that ranting ?

The discussion is absolutely not about opening trades in different directions with a separated logic (hedging account, multiple strategies). The discussion is about what people call "hedging", which means opening a trade in the opposite direction of a losing trade, rather than closing the losing trade.

It's easy to be right when you talk alone. Answer the questions if you want to be serious.

[Keith Watford]

AIRAT SAFIN:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The official position of MetaQuotes Software Corp.

"We have added the second accounting system — hedging,

which expands the possibilities of retail Forex traders"

https://www.metatrader5.com/en/releasenotes/terminal/1325

This is the answer to "Some people will never understand"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the MQL5 documentation:

Hegded positions are oppositely directed positions of one symbol

https://www.mql5.com/en/docs/constants/environment_state/marketinfoconstants

You wouldn't expect Metaquotes to announce

"We have added the second accounting system — hedging,

which expands the possibilities of gullible retail Forex traders to pay additional costs to the broker"

would you?

Metaquotes' customers are the brokers and I am sure that they welcomed this additional income stream. 

Ok, try one more time.

You have a buy trade open and it is losing $10.

You open a sell trade with the same lot size so you now have a "hedged" position.

Now, explain how it is possible that at any time, while you have these 2 trades open, that the net loss reduces.

[AIRAT SAFIN]

Alain Verleyen:

What is all of that ranting ?

The discussion is absolutely not about opening trades in different directions with a separated logic (hedging account, multiple strategies). The discussion is about what people call "hedging", which means opening a trade in the opposite direction of a losing trade, rather than closing the losing trade.

It's easy to be right when you talk alone. Answer the questions if you want to be serious.

All my posts in this forum thread are strictly related to the topic starter
Let's take a close look at the start message

"i need a hedge tool or ea
it will minimize any lose position has been opened by another EA ,
i dont want to use sl , i need to hedge it"

Firstly "any lose"
=> any negative move of the profit even in positive zone

Secondly "position has been opened by another EA"
=> that is absolutely "with a separated logic"!

Thirdly "i dont want to use sl , i need to hedge it"
=> it is "absolutely not about opening trades in different directions"

[younis ha]

el_looto:

Yopie, show us [with mathematics] that hedging yields a better result than just 'going flat' or partial closes.

Like this:

[Hedge]

enter long at 1.0000 (net 1 lot long)

price rise to 1.1000 (1000 pips gain)

hedge at 1.1000 with 1 lot short (net flat)

price falls to 1.0500 (no loss: 500 pip gain from the short, 500 pip loss from the long)

remove hedge at 1.0500 (net 1 lot long)

price rise to 1.1000 (500 pips gain)

close for 1500 pips profit

[No Hedge]

enter long at 1.000 (1 lot long)

close at 1.1000 (1000 pips gain)

re enter long at 1.0500 (1 lot long)

close at 1.1000 (500 pips gain)

total profit 1500 pips.

Its almost like hedging does not improve the strategy...

you totally destroy the logic , read about recovery zone strategy  , or hedge trading , how to use hedge .  then you will understand  

[AIRAT SAFIN]

Keith Watford:

You wouldn't expect Metaquotes to announce

"We have added the second accounting system — hedging,

which expands the possibilities of gullible retail Forex traders to pay additional costs to the broker"

would you?

Metaquotes' customers are the brokers and I am sure that they welcomed this additional income stream. 

Ok, try one more time.

You have a buy trade open and it is losing $10.

You open a sell trade with the same lot size so you now have a "hedged" position.

Now, explain how it is possible that at any time, while you have these 2 trades open, that the net loss reduces.

Ok, try one more time

"You have ...
You open ...
Now, ..."

This situation is very divorced from the real trading context

The real trading context =>
=> floating spread
=> uncertainty with order volume filling
=> very variable times of order execution
=> and so on almost to infinity ...

And =>
=> reasons for opening the initial position
=> current state of these causes
=> reasons for opening the opposite position
=> other ready-to-use position management procedures
=> and so on almost to infinity ...

Summary

1> In real trading simple math doesn't work
because it is the area of ​​high uncertainty

2> The reasons for closing the initial position
should be as specific as the reasons for opening it

[Andreas Bauer]

Again an interesting conversation about hedging.

It's actually always the same:

Some people, that think they can grab something out of the markets, without doing much for it [opening trades without any technical logic, but by mathematical assumptions]

and others that say, that all mathematical calculations speak against it.

I personally think, that hedging is dangerous, as you never know where this trade-basket is going to end...

Like grid/martingale...

But who knows?

Maybe hedging works, if you are lucky.

[Keith Watford]

Keith Watford:

Ok, try one more time.

You have a buy trade open and it is losing $10.

You open a sell trade with the same lot size so you now have a "hedged" position.

Now, explain how it is possible that at any time, while you have these 2 trades open, that the net loss reduces.

AIRAT SAFIN:

"You have ...
You open ...
Now, ..."

This situation is very divorced from the real trading context

Waffle waffle blah blah blah.

Just admit it. You can't give a simple answer to the simple question can you?

I knew that already. That is because it is not possible to reduce the loss on a trade by "hedging".