Why are there differences in the MT4 platform and the brokers other platforms for the OHLC and most indicators? - page 2

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Sergey Golubev
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109898
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How does a broker work? - the thread 

True ECN Broker vs Not True ECN Broker - the thread

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Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies

Something Interesting in Financial Video August 2013

Sergey Golubev, 2013.08.25 15:16

81. The Role of the Retail Forex Broker

Before the internet, very few individuals traded foreign exchange as they could not get access to a level of pricing that would allow them a reasonable chance to profit after transaction costs. Shortly after the internet became mainstream however several firms built online trading platforms which gave the individual trader a much higher level access to the market. The internet introduced two main features into the equation which were not present before:

1. Streaming Quotes: The Internet allowed these firms to stream quotes directly to traders and then have them execute on those quotes from their computer instead of having to deal over the phone. This automated trade processing, and therefore made it easier for firms to offer the ability to trade fx to the individuals and still be profitable.

2. Automatic Margin Calls: What is not so obvious but what was perhaps even more key is that the internet allowed an automated margin call feature to be built into the platform. This allowed firms to accept cash deposits from clients instead of having to put them through the process of signing up to trade via a credit line. As we discussed in our last lesson it is very difficult to get a credit line to trade FX and for those who do it is a lot of paperwork and hoops to jump through before they can begin trading. This would have made it impossible to offer FX trading to smaller individual traders as the cost involved in getting them set up to trade would not be worth it.

As the electronic platform allowed clients to deposit funds and then automatically cut them out of positions if they got to low on funds, this negated the need for credit lines and made the work to get an individual account open well worth it to the forex broker from a profit standpoint.

If you don't understand all the ins and outs of margin at this point don't worry as this is something that we are going to go into much more detail on in a later lesson.

For now it is simply important to understand that what these firms did was take all the traders who were not big enough by themselves to get access to good pricing and routed their order flow through one entity that was. This allowed these firms access to much tighter pricing than would otherwise have been possible which was then passed along plus a little for the brokers to the end client.

So now you can see why although the forex market has been around for a relatively long period of time, individuals have only started to trade the market over the last few years.

Anther key thing that it is important to understand here is that the larger a firm gets in terms of trading volume, the greater access that firm has to tighter prices and liquidity and the more likely that firm is to be able to pass on better pricing and execution to their clients.



Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies

Press review

Sergey Golubev, 2013.07.01 06:59

Just something about ECN and STP - The Truth about Currenex Brokers :

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What is an ECN?

ECN is a term often used when referring to Currenex. ECN stands for Electronic Communication Network and it eliminates the function of a third party in the execution of orders. Without the intercession of a third party, market participants of any size can interact directly for Bid and Offer prices posted by other market participants. This leads to greater transparency and narrower spreads. ARCHIPELAGO, purchased by the NYSE in 2006, and ISLAND are two well known ECNs.

What is an ESP?

ESP™ means Executable Streaming Prices and is offered through the Currenex system. Currenex connects to multiple sources of liquidity, primarily banks, who offer "pools of liquidity". This expansiveness from the multiple pools of liquidity, available through Currenex’s ESP, provides better price discovery and narrower spreads for traders.

The prices that are offered via Currenex are executed directly within these various pools of liquidity. Whereas in the past, a trader would be required to obtain a Prime Brokerage relationship with one or more of the major liquidity providers which required a very high threshold and associated high expenses.

Not all Currenex Brokers are the same.

It is important to remember that a broker’s Currenex offering is only as good as the liquidity sources that are linked to the platform. The quantity and quality of liquidity sources can lead to dramatic differences in price spreads. For instance, a broker offering 1-2 banks versus a broker offering 8-10 banks will have a dramatic difference in pricing and liquidity.

What is STP?

STP, or Straight Through Processing, is a term commonly used among Forex brokers.Many Forex brokers state they use "interbank pricing" but act as a counter party to their customers’ trades. They take the other side of the trade, going against the client’s best interest, and make money on a client’s losing trade.

Conversely, a true STP setup passes the order in an automated way to all liquidity sources. With a true STP broker, there is not the possibility of any adversarial relationship between the broker and client as the broker only generates revenue in the form of a commission per trade rather than the dealing desk model of capturing client losses.


Sergey Golubev
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Something Interesting in Financial Video October 2014

Sergey Golubev, 2014.10.17 20:03

Difference between ECN, market makers and STP brokers

In a perfect world the cost of buying and selling currencies would be the same, no matter which Forex broker you use. Unlike the stock market where we get heavy regulation and where stock prices are derived from a single exchange, prices vary from different Forex broker platforms.

The reason why is because currency prices are derived from the Interbank market which is a conglomerate of banks and hedge funds that provide prices to various Forex brokers around the world. The better the relationship between the Interbank market participants and the broker means that the prices are cheaper.

We expand on this in the video tutorial whilst also describing the main difference between ECN, market makers and STP Forex brokers.




Sergey Golubev
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Sergey Golubev  

Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies

Something Interesting in Financial Video August 2013

Sergey Golubev, 2013.08.24 08:28

80. Who Really Controls the Forex Market?

As we discussed in our last lesson the forex market is an over the counter market meaning that there is no centralized exchange where all trades are made. Because of this, the price that someone receives when trading forex has traditionally differed depending on the size of the transaction and the sophistication of the person or entity that is making that transaction.

At the center or first level of the market is something known as the Interbank market. While technically any bank is part of the Interbank market, when an FX Trader speaks of the interbank market he or she is really talking about the 10 or so largest banks that make markets in FX. These institutions make up over 75% of the over $3 Trillion dollars in FX Traded on any given day.

There are two primary factors which separate institutions with direct interbank access from everyone else which are:

1. Access to the tightest prices. We will learn more about transaction costs in later lessons however for now simply understand that for every 1 Million in currency traded those who have direct access to the Interbank market save approximately $100 per trade or more over the next level of participants.

2. Access to the best liquidity. As with any other market there is a certain amount of liquidity or amount that can be traded at any one price. If more than what is available at the current price is traded, then the price adjusts until additional liquidity enters the market. As the forex market is over the counter, liquidity is spread out among different providers, with the banks comprising the interbank market having access to the greatest amount of liquidity and then declining levels of liquidity available at different levels moving away from the Interbank market.

In contrast to individuals who make a deposit into their account to trade, institutions trading in the interbank market trade via credit lines. In order to get a credit line from a top bank to trade foreign exchange you must be a very large and very financially stable institution, as bankruptcy would mean the firm that gave you the credit line gets stuck with your trades.

The next level of participants are the hedge funds, brokerage firms, and smaller banks who are not quite large enough to have direct access to the Interbank market. As we just discussed the difference here is that the transaction costs for the trade are a bit higher and the liquidity available is a bit lower than at the Interbank level.

The next level of participants has traditionally been corporations and smaller financial institutions who do make foreign exchange trades, but not enough to warrant the better pricing

As you can see here, traditionally as the market participant got smaller and less sophisticated the transaction costs they paid to trade became larger and the liquidity that was available to them got smaller and smaller. In a lot of cases this is still true today, as anyone who has ever exchanged currencies at the airport when traveling knows.

To give you an idea of just how large a difference there is between participants in the Interbank market and an individual trading currencies for travel, Interbank market participants pay approximately $.0001 to exchange Euros for Dollars where Individuals in the airport can pay $.05 or more. This may not seem like much of a difference but think about it this way: On $10,000 that is $1 that the Interbank participant pays and $500 that the individual pays.

The landscape for the individual trader has changed drastically since the internet has gone mainstream however, in many ways leveling the playing field and putting the individual trader along side large financial institutions in terms of access to pricing and liquidity. This will be the topic of our next lesson.



Sergey Golubev
Moderator
109898
Sergey Golubev  

More video lessons - 

  • Why Choosing a Forex Broker is so Confusing - the post 
  • Choosing a Forex Broker: Regulation and Financial Stability - the post 
  • Choosing a Forex Broker Part III: Transaction Costs - the post 
  • Choosing a Forex Broker, Part IV: Technology & Add-ons - the post 
  • Forex Broker Types - MM,NDD,STP,ECN - the post 
  • An Introduction to ECNs - the post
Sergey Golubev
Moderator
109898
Sergey Golubev  
Gary Heard
357
Gary Heard  
Sergey Golubev:

Hi Sergey,


Sorry, I must be explaining myself poorly as these videos are explaining differences between brokers.  THIS IS NOT what I need help with.

One Broker offers 3 different platforms they own and all data is 100% the same but when MT4 is used with that same broker, the data is not the same as the broker's other platforms.


This is as simple as I can explain it. It really isn't anymore complicated then trying to understand why manual traders get one set of data and MT4 algorithmic traders get another.

One can assume that the data is different and more accurate because MT4 users are algorithmic but one could also assume the opposite. I want to hear from other traders with other brokers if they experience the same data inconsistencies.

I wanted MQL5 to reassure me that this is not scam and provide me with a viable explanation.


So far I have gotten neither.  Can you provide me any education on why a single broker can have data consistency across all of their platforms but when MT4 is used by that broker there is data integrity issues?


Thanks

Sergey Golubev
Moderator
109898
Sergey Golubev  
Gary Heard:

Hi Sergey,


Sorry, I must be explaining myself poorly as these videos are explaining differences between brokers.  THIS IS NOT what I need help with.

One Broker offers 3 different platforms they own and all data is 100% the same but when MT4 is used with that same broker, the data is not the same as the broker's other platforms.


This is as simple as I can explain it. It really isn't anymore complicated then trying to understand why manual traders get one set of data and MT4 algorithmic traders get another.

One can assume that the data is different and more accurate because MT4 users are algorithmic but one could also assume the opposite. I want to hear from other traders with other brokers if they experience the same data inconsistencies.

I wanted MQL5 to reassure me that this is not scam and provide me with a viable explanation.


So far I have gotten neither.  Can you provide me any education on why a single broker can have data consistency across all of their platforms but when MT4 is used by that broker there is data integrity issues?


Thanks

I understood your point.
I just provided the information (for everybody) about the brokers.

Yes, the data/quotes are not centralized (they are not centralized for the Metatrader brokers which are not directly connected to the stock exchange).
And there are some (many) brokers with "decentralized data" (we call them "kitchens" in Russia).
Example:

  • One person: "I found some broker with 1:500 leverage so I want to deposit money and trade. What is your opinion about this broker?" 
  • Reply: "Is this broker acting as a kitchen? is it kitchen?"
  • One person: "Yes."
  • Reply: " Do not deposit too much money to your account with this broker."

------------------

There are some people who are selecting the brokers (to trade) based on good data/quotes, some other people prefer to use regulated brokers, others prefer to use the broker which is having the office near their home ... and so on ..

And when someone told: "I have EA which was profitable for the last year" so the experience traders will ask: "profitable EA? Which broker for?"
Because if EA is profitable for any broker (for any data/quotes) so this EA is trading on daily/weekly timeframe.
:)

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Can you provide me any education on why a single broker can have data consistency across all of their platforms but when MT4 is used by that broker there is data integrity issues?

Different brokers, different data providers (the companies who are providing/selling the data for the brokers), different habits, different place of registration (Belize, or Russia, or the US, the UK, and so on), different regulation/law, different government regulations, and so on ... 

Everything is different ... life is different, the countries are the different, and people are different ... and the opinion of the people is different for same problems/issues.
For example, what you consider as a scam - I can consider as a normal traditional behaviour.

Gary Heard
357
Gary Heard  
Sergey Golubev:

I understood your point.
I just provided the information (for everybody) about the brokers.

Yes, the data/quotes are not centralized (they are not centralized for the Metatrader brokers which are not directly connected to the stock exchange).
And there are some (many) brokers with "decentralized data" (we call them "kitchens" in Russia).
Example:

  • One person: "I found some broker with 1:500 leverage so I want to deposit money and trade. What is your opinion about this broker?" 
  • Reply: "Is this broker acting as a kitchen? is it kitchen?"
  • One person: "Yes."
  • Reply: " Do not deposit too much money to your account with this broker."

------------------

There are some people who are selecting the brokers (to trade) based on good data/quotes, some other people prefer to use regulated brokers, others prefer to use the broker which is having the office near their home ... and so on ..

And when someone told: "I have EA which was profitable for the last year" so the experience traders will ask: "profitable EA? Which broker for?"
Because if EA is profitable for any broker (for any data/quotes) so this EA is trading on daily/weekly timeframe.
:)

----------------

Different brokers, different data providers (the companies who are providing/selling the data for the brokers), different habits, different place of registration (Belize, or Russia, or the US, the UK, and so on), different regulation/law, different government regulations, and so on ... 

Everything is different ... life is different, the countries are the different, and people are different ... and the opinion of the people is different for same problems/issues.
For example, what you consider as a scam - I can consider as a normal traditional behaviour.

Based on what you are saying then Sergey, is that this can happen with any broker and cannot be controlled whether it is fair or not, beneficial or not, and that you have already accepted this as a reality and so should everyone else.  Robots cannot be purchased here with the expectations of success until they are proven on each individual broker which is not possible because most demos only work on a tester.


Maybe not a scam but certainly takes me away from purchasing any robot on MQL5 without it being tested individually with each of my brokers.  Which cannot be done.  This means I have wasted about 2 thousand dollars purchasing and renting robots that may or may not ever work because the broker does not have data integrity.


Nice.


Thanks for clarifying.  I wont be spending another cent on any robots here.

Sergey Golubev
Moderator
109898
Sergey Golubev  
Gary Heard:

Based on what you are saying then Sergey, is that this can happen with any broker and cannot be controlled whether it is fair or not, beneficial or not, and that you have already accepted this as a reality and so should everyone else.  Robots cannot be purchased here with the expectations of success until they are proven on each individual broker which is not possible because most demos only work on a tester.


Maybe not a scam but certainly takes me away from purchasing any robot on MQL5 without it being tested individually with each of my brokers.  Which cannot be done.  This means I have wasted about 2 thousand dollars purchasing and renting robots that may or may not ever work because the broker does not have data integrity.


Nice.


Thanks for clarifying.  I wont be spending another cent on any robots here.

Demo data and real data should be same for one broker.

-----------

If you are talking about backtesting so it is related to the following: do you believe in it or not ... and it is related to the person you are buying EA from.
Many sellers are the active members of this forum, and some of them are publishing the articles, some of them are well-known members here and everywhere ... besides, the coders are having coding specialization ...

So, it is better to buy something from the person you know.

As to the data so it depends on the data providers .. some brokers are using one data provider, some of the brokers are using the other one (I am not connected with the brokers so I do not know the particularities sorry).
And if the seller is professional coder/trader so he will tell the settings his EA for one broker, and to the other one, and so on.

Gary Heard
357
Gary Heard  
Sergey Golubev:

Demo data and real data should be same for one broker.

-----------

If you are talking about backtesting so it is related to the following: do you believe in it or not ... and it is related to the person you are buying EA from.
Many sellers are the active members of this forum, and some of them are publishing the articles, some of them are well-known members here and everywhere ... besides, the coders are having coding specialization ...

So, it is better to buy something from the person you know.

As to the data so it depends on the data providers .. some brokers are using one data provider, some of the brokers are using the other one (I am not connected with the brokers so I do not know the particularities sorry).
And if the seller is professional coder/trader so he will tell the settings his EA for one broker, and to the other one, and so on.

No I am not talking about backtesting.

If what you said is accurate then no EA sold here will work unless as you said, you know the developer and he has tested it on the specific broker you plan to use.

Oh and broker has several law suits against them for this very topic.  I just missed the settlement with one group but I will get in another as they are very corrupt.  Don't ever use them.

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