Signal provider uses cent account, I have normal ECN, how will this correlate?

To add comments, please log in or register
gipfelvision
593
gipfelvision  
I'm considering a signal on here, but the signal provider uses a cent account. The balance for the cent account is around 30k USD, and the account I want to use is more like $300. How will the signal correlate the lot sizes? The signal provider told me that the minimum I need is $100-150, but I'm not sure if he means for a cent account. 
Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6565
Eleni Anna Branou  
gipfelvision:
I'm considering a signal on here, but the signal provider uses a cent account. The balance for the cent account is around 30k USD, and the account I want to use is more like $300. How will the signal correlate the lot sizes? The signal provider told me that the minimum I need is $100-150, but I'm not sure if he means for a cent account. 

The ratio between the signal's account and yours will be based on the amount you see on the signal's page (30K) and your $300.

If you use the maximum 95% for copying the signal, your ratio will be about 0,8-1%.

Also have in mind that if the signal opens very small positions like 0.01 to 0.10 lots, you won't be able to copy the properly and your orders will be rounded up, so your risk will be greater than the signal's.
gipfelvision
593
gipfelvision  
Eleni Anna Branou:

The ratio between the signal's account and yours will be based on the amount you see on the signal's page (30K) and your $300.

If you use the maximum 95% for copying the signal, your ratio will be about 0,8-1%.


Thanks! So in essence, it would translate as if he was using a normal non-cent account, correct? As far as it concerns to the lot sizes my trades would make. 

Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6565
Eleni Anna Branou  
gipfelvision:

Thanks! So in essence, it would translate as if he was using a normal non-cent account, correct? As far as it concerns to the lot sizes my trades would make. 


Yes, the only point of the warning: the signal provider uses a cent account, is to tell you that he (or she) is not risking much money.

Marco vd Heijden
Moderator
8156
Marco vd Heijden  

The real answer here would be found in the duration of the trades.

If you subscribe to a scalping signal with a lot of fast and small trades, synchronization may suffer to the extend that the results can be far apart due to minor differences in quotes, slippage, and (sometimes) spreads.

If your signal provider has a tight signal that only scoops off cents, he can have a winning statistic, where your trades will be slightly negative most of the time, resulting in a failure.

However if the signal is more like a trend follower, with longer running trades, the difference will more be like neglect-able.

So just check out the history of the signal and see how long on average these trades last.

Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6565
Eleni Anna Branou  
Marco vd Heijden:

The real answer here would be found in the duration of the trades.

If you subscribe to a scalping signal with a lot of fast and small trades, synchronization may suffer to the extend that the results can be far apart due to minor differences in quotes, slippage, and (sometimes) spreads.

However if the signal is more like a trend follower, with longer running trades, the difference will more be like neglect-able.

So just check out the history of the signal and see how long on average these trades last.


You are right about the quality of copying Marco, but this has nothing to do with the fact the the signal uses a cent account and the subscriber an ECN account.

Its more important that the slippage between the two brokers is small, or even better both provider and subscriber are on the same broker.

gipfelvision
593
gipfelvision  
Marco vd Heijden:

The real answer here would be found in the duration of the trades.

If you subscribe to a scalping signal with a lot of fast and small trades, synchronization may suffer to the extend that the results can be far apart due to minor differences in quotes, slippage, and (sometimes) spreads.

If your signal provider has a tight signal that only scoops off cents, he can have a winning statistic, where your trades will be slightly negative most of the time, resulting in a failure.

However if the signal is more like a trend follower, with longer running trades, the difference will more be like neglect-able.

So just check out the history of the signal and see how long on average these trades last.


Average trades per week is 310, but the average trade length is 2 hours, so it doesn't seem like a lightning fast razor scalping system cutting a few cents every time. I am a little worried about the fact that it uses a slight martingale system, though. The drawdown is under 20%, but I wasn't sure if that was different in a cent account. I really just know nothing about cent accounts when it comes down to it. That would be around $6,000 in drawdown on his account and am not sure if an acount so small like mine could handle something like that, even with smaller trade sizes.

Eleni Anna Branou
Moderator
6565
Eleni Anna Branou  
gipfelvision:

Average trades per week is 310, but the average trade length is 2 hours, so it doesn't seem like a lightning fast razor scalping system cutting a few cents every time. I am a little worried about the fact that it uses a slight martingale system, though. The drawdown is under 20%, but I wasn't sure if that was different in a cent account. I really just know nothing about cent accounts when it comes down to it. That would be around $6,000 in drawdown on his account and am not sure if an acount so small like mine could handle something like that, even with smaller trade sizes.


The drawdown is the same for both normal and cent accounts, just make sure that the DD value you see is from the beginning of the signal and not since it was shared in MQL5.com.

You can check that on the Equity/Drawdown chart where the connection date of the signal to the MQL5 database is clearly visible.

Marco vd Heijden
Moderator
8156
Marco vd Heijden  

That is 62 trades a day, or 2.5 trades an hour.

That are many trades.

Also with cent accounts 10$ simply equals 1000$ on the trading account trading conditions will be the same except for the deposits and withdrawals, as well as the risk, will be in cents.(1000 cent)

If you want to know more, 310 trades is 308 trades too many, especially in a martingale setup.

Why would you risk more capital then the signal provider?

He or she will only risk or lost 10 $ but what about you ?

Do you really feel like you have any thought at all as to how this could possibly be equal in a risk comparison ?

Im not sure what you are trying to do, but i am eager to know the outcome from all of it.

gipfelvision
593
gipfelvision  
Marco vd Heijden:

That is 62 trades a day, or 2.5 trades an hour.

That is a lot.

Also with cent accounts 10$ simply equals 1000$ on the trading account trading conditions will be the same except for the deposits and withdrawals will be in cents.(1000 cent)

If you want to know more, 310 trades is 308 trades too many, especially in a martingale setup.

Why would you risk more money then the signal provider?

He or she will only risk or lost 10 $ but what about you ?

Do you really feel like you have any thought at all as to how this could possibly be equal in a risk comparison ?

Im not sure what you are trying to do, but i am eager to know the outcome.


This is why I am asking, because I have never used a signal from a cent account before. He is using an EA. So if his account is 30k, then he and I are trading with the same amount of money then, right? It has looked stable for the past 13 months since it began, never hitting over 20% drawdown and never a losing month. 

gipfelvision
593
gipfelvision  

I guess more or less the largest risk would be the martingale lot sizes to bring back the profit. I'm aware of the risks of a Martingale system very well, but I am worried that I would not have enough capital to make the necessary lots to recover profit. But somehow he says that minimum is $100-$150, but maybe for a cent account, I don't know.

12
To add comments, please log in or register