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Who owns copyright on Mt4 expert?

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billko1977
24
billko1977  
Hello,
 I contracted to have an MT4 expert built to my exact specifications. I paid for said expert to be built and now the coder will not give me the original source code and has written a copyright on the EX4. 
I mean it's my idea and I paid for him to do it isn't it my expert? 
Can someone with some experience in the area please let me know how I should proceed or if I have any rights at all?

Thank you for your response
whroeder1
15930
whroeder1  
jimmyjohn: I contracted to have an MT4 expert built to my exact specifications. I paid for said expert to be built and now the coder will not give me the original source code and has written a copyright on the EX4. 
I mean it's my idea and I paid for him to do it isn't it my expert?

Unless the contract stated specifically that the coder retains ownership of the code, He was your employee, the employer does.

The idea was yours and he should not make use of it outside of your code.

Handle it as a thief.

billko1977
24
billko1977  
WHRoeder:

Unless the contract stated specifically that the coder retains ownership of the code, He was your employee, the employer does.

The idea was yours and he should not make use of it outside of your code.

Handle it as a thief.


No there was never any agreement whatsoever that he would somehow Retain ownership of the files. This was 100% my idea and I have emails to prove it. Now I just gotta figure if there's actually anything I can do about it. I know I've heard of backwards compiling an ex4 but I really want the source code. Ugg
Any ideas on what I can do?
Thanks
JC
1520
JC  
jimmyjohn:

No there was never any agreement whatsoever that he would somehow Retain ownership of the files. This was 100% my idea and I have emails to prove it. Now I just gotta figure if there's actually anything I can do about it. I know I've heard of backwards compiling an ex4 but I really want the source code. Ugg

It's by no means a simple question, and nobody on this forum is a lawyer. But, unless you specifically agreed in advance that you were paying for the source code as well as the working product, a judge in any G8 country would be likely to rule that you haven't paid for ownership of the code. The distinction between the "idea" and the code which implements that idea merely complicates things further.

You won't find a definitive answer on the internet, because lawyers like to charge fees, but you're not going to like quasi-legal opinions such as the following: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/160503/does-custom-created-code-for-a-client-imply-copyright-ownership

SYED NAUFAL GADDAFI
1399
SYED NAUFAL GADDAFI  

Yes. Next time you better said the pay include with the source code. Basically the coder have done his part and get paid for it (compiled ex4).

Idea and coding is treated for 2 different things.

honest_knave
Moderator
2326
honest_knave  

This will depend on both the terms of your contract with the coder, and the applicable legal jurisdiction that covers the contract.

If you simply contracted a coder to create you an expert that does 1-2-3... and the coder has provided you with an expert that does 1-2-3... then most people would consider the contract to have been settled.

If this is the case, you would need to argue that there was an implicit understanding that you would receive the source code. This will be far harder to do than if you expressly requested it.

The coder is not your employee.

By not giving you the source, he hasn't necessarily done anything with your idea. He simply isn't giving you something you didn't contract for.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. 

Keith Watford
Moderator
10645
Keith Watford  
If I go to a baker and order a bespoke cake, I expect a cake, I don't expect the recipe unless I have specified that I also want the recipe
SYED NAUFAL GADDAFI
1399
SYED NAUFAL GADDAFI  
Yes, definitely something like that.
Simon Gniadkowski
Moderator
18027
Simon Gniadkowski  
honest_knave:

This will depend on both the terms of your contract with the coder, and the applicable legal jurisdiction that covers the contract.

If you simply contracted a coder to create you an expert that does 1-2-3... and the coder has provided you with an expert that does 1-2-3... then most people would consider the contract to have been settled.

If this is the case, you would need to argue that there was an implicit understanding that you would receive the source code. This will be far harder to do than if you expressly requested it.

The coder is not your employee.

By not giving you the source, he hasn't necessarily done anything with your idea. He simply isn't giving you something you didn't contract for.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. 

I would agree with this . . . and just add that the OP and anyone else ordering a coding service has to specify up front what the deliverables are,  in my mind an executable on it's own (EX4) would be priced very differently from an executable and source code.    If I build an executable using functions I have built up over several years then the executable price does not include all rights to the source code I have taken years to write . . .
Ian Venner
2584
Ian Venner  
jimmyjohn:
Hello,
 I contracted to have an MT4 expert built to my exact specifications. I paid for said expert to be built and now the coder will not give me the original source code and has written a copyright on the EX4. 
I mean it's my idea and I paid for him to do it isn't it my expert? 
Can someone with some experience in the area please let me know how I should proceed or if I have any rights at all?

Thank you for your response


Do not assume a freelance coder is your employee, under the law he almost certainly is not.

The bottom line is this, when the coder retains the source code and claims he owns the copyright, only a court of law can order him to give you that source code. If you had no carefully worded agreement that clearly states the copyright and the source code belong to you, suing him could turn out to be an expensive foray into the quagmire of copyright law.

Programmers don't get it all their own way though, if the coder retains copyright it means he is licensing the trader to use his software, this leaves the coder open to liability claims. So in other words if the EA does not work as agreed and you lose money because of it, you could sue him for your losses. He might change his mind about claiming the code when you explain that part to him.

Programmers should be careful about this, open source developers are well aware of how it can backfire on them and they have very specific licensing to cover them. To code for other people and protect yourself from repercussions while protecting your work you almost need to be a lawyer too.

In my opinion the best thing to do as a coder is agree the job is to write source code for the other party, they own it and the copyright to it, therefore absolving the coder of all liability.

The MQL5 jobs section should have all that covered but still read the small print before you agree a job even on there.

Ian Venner
2584
Ian Venner  

Further to what I mentioned in the previous post I was talking to a lawyer buddy of mine, he explained to me, if you code EA for someone and charge them for the executable while retaining ownership of the code, there is a very good chance if they lose their money on that EA they could sue you for their losses regardless of whether the EA worked properly or not.

The reason is, they are not the owner of the project you are, regardless of their input. You then sold them a program which lost them 20 grand.

12
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