How can I recognize a decompiled code ? - page 2
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I think we should not discuss about this matters, it's obvious that using code of another developer without his permission is not right.
I think we should not discuss about this matters, it's obvious that using code of another developer without his permission is not right.
"have no morals" , "is not right"..
Who gets to determine what is right or wrong or the morals for the entire planet?
I don't eat meat.
Does that mean I get to determine that killing something to feed meat eaters are wrong or that those that consume meat have no morals??
Ethics and morals aside, maybe the most important aspect of the matter involving "working with decompiled code" in regards with projects developers get involved with in the freelance section is IMHO the fact that unwillingly one can get punished for another one's mistake.
I'll argue that me, as a developer, should not be subject to administrative measures based on other people's actions.
I am bidding to do a job.
My opinion is that policing the legitimacy of the code the customer posts should not be my concern as a developer.
I am not interested in "decompiled code" but in the "working" part from "working with decompiled code".
I want to get paid to code and what the customer brings in is his sole responsibility.
Some may know it's decompiled code, some may not. Either way, the developer is expected to work for the customer doing what the customer needs to be done.
If the site sets a policy regarding decompiled code usage, that specific policy should be enforced by the site itself curating the very publishing process and applying administrative measures or punishing those who breach said policy willingly by providing decompiled code related to their projects as customers before exposing me as a developer to a potential risk.
I do not want to work with decompiled code. Where do I have to tick a box to state that and be prevented to be presented with projects that involve decompiled code? how me the box and I'll tick it, then you, the admins do your jobs and make that happen. It's your platform and the market place should be swiped clean by it's administrators, not by it's customers. Get your brooms and get to work. Your work.
The fact that a developer simply bids on a project while that project involves decompiled code should not be grounds for account banning or worse because the developer provides work. The code is provided by the customer. It's his responsibility if he chooses so. The code is provided by the customer and the burden of proving it's legitimacy should not rest upon the shoulders of those who want to get paid to work, but on the shoulders of those who ask for said work and provide decompiled code for that to be done.
The developer provides service and knowledge and whatever he brings in the contract fulfillment is immaterial. It becomes something out of nothing AFTER the customer puts on a table some money and the site gets paid for a work to get done and a idea or the code itself, decompiled or not. So, the one that initiates the working relationship is not the developer, but the customer and what he asks the developer to do for him, as long as it's in the marketplace and the process of applying for it is open, the developer should not have ANY CONCERNS regarding breaching any policy the site could possibly have regarding what should get published and what not, because the publishing process is done already. If things slip through the cracks, it's because the policy enforcement and preventive measures were not enough. So, the developers are getting slaps on their wrists on a daily basis because the admins are too busy doing something else.
The failure of the site to curate and enforce it's own policies hurts the developers more than the customer base and continues to make victims on a daily basis.
Any project can have attached files.
Any of those files could be decompiled code.
Any communication between developer and customer can contain decompiled code.
The decompiled code is not something that cannot be stopped from being attached in the first place or checked for by sifting through chat messages. The fact that the admins continue to punish developers for simply being involved in projects related to decompiled code is the living proof that developers are considered disposable and protecting their interests is not worth the effort necessary to enforce already set policies to take preventive measures instead of punitive measures.
It's not uncommon to see a system that grows to the point where it serves it's own interest more than the idea it was build on.
The freelance service should be a honest way for those who can to do things for and get paid by those who cannot.
Simple as pie.
What you'll allow to be published, send and received in your own service using your own framework and tools makes you responsible for keeping it clean.
That's why I think the developers should not be held responsible for customers actions.
One can bid on a project and not bother to open all the attachments because the conversion rate is so low it's not worth the time spent (to maybe get one job you have to apply 10 times a day).
One can be assigned a job and then get sent to him some code after the job was assigned because the customer knows he will get pinched if he attaches that in plain sight.
One can be asked to implement a particular feature from a particular working piece of code to get paid, or else the deal is off.
What should the developer do? He wants to work. He provides a service. He brings in only what's in his head. Nothing else. In between his ears is not decompiled code. That gets on the table being put there by the customer. He says use this to do that. If it's already on the site, it should be fair game, right? We're not dealing cocaine here, we're talking script. Don' want some written stuff on your site? Don't let it be put there.
None of the above examples are hypothetical - all are real examples of things that happen every day to many of us, the developers.
Being banned for a limited amount of time is unfair and useless.
The developers should not be expected to denounce policy infringements because that conflicts with their own personal interests. If such a policy is in place, enforce it to the best of your abilities or shape it in such a way that it will do the least amount of damage for the most amount of benefit. Who benefits from banning developers and preventing them to work? Do the site have more customers if that is allowed to happen? Will the remaining developers have more work if some of them get banned? Sure, for a while, until they get banned, too, because everyone is exposed to the same risk if the policy stay as it is now.
The focus shifted towards keeping in line those who chose to get in and stay, willingly.
I doubt the freelance section will get more revenue or more happy paying customers if less developers will work on their projects, and if we'll get at each other's throats reporting one another or projects we see involve working with decompiled code, we're all going down.
The admins should establish guilt where guilt can be established proportional to direct involvement.
I couldn't care less if a customer gets his account banned, too after he attached decompiled code to his project or dropped it in my lap after he already assigned the job to me and got his funds blocked in escrow. He will make a new account shortly and will continue to do what he wants, but in the meantime, the work a developer has done is nullified because he's unfairly being held responsible for other people's choices.
If that's fair and normal here, I wanna be somewhere else.
If you're affected in any way by the current state of things, maybe more expressed opinions and support tickets will get the ball rolling in the right direction.
Please feel free to share your personal experiences.
Iulian Sadovei:
Please feel free to share your personal experiences.
That's a funny post
This is a joke right ?
That's a funny post
This is a joke right ?
I don't think so :)
So much effort in a joke - very unlikely
So much effort in justifying the theft - much more likely
Форум по трейдингу, автоматическим торговым системам и тестированию торговых стратегий
Decompiling
Vladimir Karputov, 2016.05.20 10:22
Everything that has the extension * .mql5 - it is certainly not decompilation.Форум по трейдингу, автоматическим торговым системам и тестированию торговых стратегий
Decompiling
Vladimir Karputov, 2016.05.20 10:22
By the names of variables and functions. If it is not decompilation so the names of variables/functions are having some meanings, and decompiled code contains a set of letters and numbers separated by underscores.Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies
Can not use Freelance Service last 2 days.
Sergey Golubev, 2017.06.05 10:30
And those are few examples (below) of decompiled code:
Just want to remind about decompilation.
It is especially related to the coders: admins are banning the coders from Freelance service in case you agree to make a job related to improve something with decompiled code.
So please be carefully with it - and always look at the attachment on the Job. If you see decompiled code as an attachment in the job so press 'Complain link', and this information will be sent to all moderators and admins of the portal:
Ethics and morals aside, maybe the most important aspect of the matter involving "working with decompiled code" in regards with projects developers get involved with in the freelance section is IMHO the fact that unwillingly one can get punished for another one's mistake. I'll argue that me, as a developer, should not be subject to administrative measures based on other people's actions. I am bidding to do a job.
This is only my opinion, but it is the responsibility of a developer to act in an ethical and professional manner.
A customer who posts decompiled code is ultimately responsible for their own actions, I don't think anyone is saying anything to the contrary.
No one is saying that programmers are responsible for the customers actions.
Decompiled is not permitted, we all agree to that when we use this website.
It's part of the terms and conditions we all agree to.
https://www.mql5.com/en/about/terms
3.13. You agree that MQL5 Ltd and its Affiliated Entities own all right, title and interest in and to the website www.mql5.com. You agree that MQL5 Ltd has all the appropriate rights and licenses for the distribution of the Content, materials, products or services through the website www.mql5.com and MQL5 Services that are provided by their respective authors or other copyright holders. You agree that You will not, and will not allow any third party to, (I) copy, sell, license, distribute, transfer, modify, adapt, translate, prepare derivative works from, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise attempt to derive the source code of the software located on the website www.mql5.com, unless otherwise permitted, (II) take any action to circumvent or defeat the security or content usage rules provided, deployed or enforced by any functionality (including without limitation digital rights management or forward-lock functionality) in the materials, products and services, (III) use the Content, materials, products or services to access, copy, transfer, transcode or retransmit content in violation of any law or third party rights, or (IV) remove, obscure, or alter copyright notices, trademarks, or other proprietary rights notices of MQL5 Ltd, MetaQuotes or any third party, affixed to or contained within the Content, materials, products or services.It's against the rules, and probably illegal in most places in the world to violate copyright law.
By agreeing to work on illegal code, you are by default also in violation of the laws, and agreeing to act in an unethical manner.
See above.
It's against the rules. A violation of the rules is grounds for banning.
Ignorance is not a valid excuse for anyone.
Not for me, Not for you, Not for anyone.
If someone knows or suspects it's decompiled code, but works on that project, is just as guilty as the person who posted the illegal code.
How about just accepting some personal responsibility and stop blaming others?
If we developers agree to work on an illegal project, then we're just as guilty as the person who initiated the project.
Clearly they are not failing to curate and enforce their rules and policies, or you wouldn't be complaining so much about this issue right now.
Again, it comes down to personal responsibility and not trying to play the victim in this situation.
Who is the real victim?
Is it the developer who took a job they knew was against the rules and illegal? NO absolutely not, they are part of the problem. They are not the victim.
Is it the customer who created the job they knew was against the rules and illegal? NO absolutely not, they are part of the problem. They are not the victim.
You know who the victim is? The developer who created the software that someone illegally decompiled against the wishes of the developer.
The developer who might be relying on the income from the EA or Indicator, they are the victim, they are being stolen from.
If anyone uses decompiled code in a project, and we get paid from that project, then developer that created the original project is the victim because they are getting ripped off.
THEY are the victim.
No one is saying you can't have attached files.
Everyone knows those files might contain decompiled code.
When you download the file and look at it, it's pretty simple to see if it's decompiled code.
As a programmer, it is our responsibility to know what that looks like.
Are you saying that this website is dishonest? That's absurd claim.
When they ban people for using illegal code, that's being honest, because they lose money when they do that.
They don't get paid or make money, unless the customer pays for their project.
Simple as pie, like you say.
You want the website to give you permission to break the law? Because that is what you are saying.
One can bid on a project and not bother to open all the attachments because the conversion rate is so low it's not worth the time spent (to maybe get one job you have to apply 10 times a day).If you bid on a project without opening the attachments and without reading all the materials, then you are absolutely at fault and should be held accountable, because ignorance is no excuse.
It is our responsibility as programmers to fully understand the project requirements before placing our bids.
One can be assigned a job and then get sent to him some code after the job was assigned because the customer knows he will get pinched if he attaches that in plain sight.Then that right there should tell you it's an illegal job. Again... Personal responsibility.
If the original developer wanted that feature to be present in their code, they would have added it.
The person could also just contact the original developer and ask them for a modification for an agreed upon fee.
I don't know of any developer who would be unwilling to make a legitimate income from improving their own product.
None of the above examples are hypothetical - all are real examples of things that happen every day to many of us, the developers. Being banned for a limited amount of time is unfair and useless.Well you just said it right there didn't you? It's a LIMITED TIME ban, not permanent.
It's absolutely fair. They could just as easily make it a lifetime ban since it was a violation of the terms and conditions.
If you feel your ban was unfair, then simply present your case with all the facts to the administration,
and as them to review it, just as you would for any other problem with a project or such.
ALSO...
To be absolutely clear In my opinion a limited ban is entirely fair, I was banned once myself, it was a lesson in personal responsibility.
I posted a bid to a project that had decompiled code, and I got a warning for it, just like everyone does.
And I like you was really angry at first, but eventually I realized they were right to warn me, just like everyone else that also bid on the job.
The website has policies and conditions in place that we all agree to abide by.
And just so you know, I have nothing to do with this website other than just being a customer that uses their products, and works on projects from time to time.
Just because there might be something that we don't agree with, does not give any of us the right to ignore that policy.
I'll agree that there might end up being less developers at some point, but that is a good thing.
It means those developers are not ripping other developers off by using decompiled code, and that they are working hard to provide a better service to their various clients.
Would you want to be associated with a business or website that practices unethical and illegal conduct as part of their daily routine? No that would be absurd.
We have to be confident that we're working with an honest service, so that we can have the confidence that we're going to get paid, and the customer has to
have the confidence that they're going to get the product for their money that they paid for.
But not caring about it being illegal and against the terms of service, is what got you banned in the first place right?
Please don't misunderstand. That is not an attack.
I am just trying to explain that as a developer, I personally feel that it is my responsibility to care if my customer is getting the best service possible.
How can we deliver a good product if we don't actually care enough to provide the best service possible?
If you don't agree with the policies and conditions, then why do you feel it's ok to continue using the website?
Is anyone forcing you to do a job through this website? There are thousands of other website where people do freelance work as well.
Perhaps pick one that is more suited to your own personal level of ethical practices.
Either that, or simply accept the fact that we all have rules and conditions we agreed to, when we signed up, if we violate those rules, then there are consequences for our actions.
Accidental or not, it comes down to personal responsibility.
if the order have an .ex4 file as attachment, is this also illegal? or just a decompiled .mq4 file is illegal?