Basic Economics in Customer relationship - page 3
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Guys, I know we're all passionate about our own points of view but please keep the thread on track and avoid insulting each other or the thread will quickly end up in the "z" file ;-)
Here is an outstanding example for honesty and good business :
<link to product removed by mod - you should know better Mr Walker!>
>The problem is that people like you apparently think that if the program designed with your stated requirements makes trades that end up draining your account, that it must be the
>program's fault, and by extension the developer. EAs need to be optimized to work with different market conditions.
I mentioned Linear Programmed Expert Advisors, and Non-Linear Programmed Expert Advisors, Do you know what is the difference between them, can you give some examples?
If you have a problem with one specific type of EA, then why not use one that you do not have problems with? It seems that you are trying to encourage people to ask MQ to enact a broad return policy on any and all items sold through them because of your apparent problems with that type of product. It does not matter if I have even heard of either of them, as I am basing my comments on your post.
>The problem with your "does not need to be optimized" type of EA is that it does not exist
First you state that EA that do not need to be optimized do not exist, and then you state :
>If you are willing to have an EA that is coded to make every single decision for you and anticipate every single possible market condition, and want to pay the developer a fair price (lots of money) for taking the time and effort to develop that particular EA
I conclude that you are in self contradiction, you have to choose or there exists such expert advisors, or they do not exist. Anyway, from your quite superficial answers, I can also conclude that you have no formal knowledge of expert systems besides standard boolean style equations as you mentioned above. Which would also mean that you most likely program standard boolean expert advisors.
You can, incorrectly, conclude that as it seems you already have. If it doesn't exist, then it means that a programmer would have to create one, as I suggested if you want one like that, that you should be willing to pay a large amount of money for them to make one. Make one does not mean there is one already. There is no contradiction in what I am saying, but I suspect that there IS one between what you wish to see in someone's responses to your statements, and what is actually being said. A boolean statement was used, and is used, as one of many possible logic decisions within a program, but as it is only one sample, and usually the easiest to understand. I thought, incorrectly it would appear, that you would understand the point I was trying to make by using it.
>Now tell me, great programmer, How much mathematics or economics do you know from your self contradiction, I would suggest studying more about non Linear Neural Networks that way you can get a job as a Quant in some Hedge Fund and make some big bucks, that way you will not need to get paid by the pennies, from uneducated users like me... :-) hahahahaha
From my non-existent "self-contradiction," none, but from my college courses on them, enough, and also from seeing what happens in real life, even more. As far as working for "some Hedge Fund," no thanks. I had the opportunity to visit a live trading house (and did so), and the thought of those types of working conditions never really appealed to me. I actually have a degree in Information Systems, and while my specific expertise is not MQL, I am trying to learn it so I can code programs that will help people make money, and also help me make money developing them as well. I strive to be one of those programmers who your well-meaning but misguided policy adjustment would hurt.
You are somewhat right, my knowledge of computer programming in MQL is very limited at the current time. I can only conclude that if you feel that my "constrained logic" hasn't found the type of program that you are looking for, then you must know it is there already or else you wouldn't be on here with this type of discussion. I never claimed to be an expert specifically in programming EAs, but I do know how difficult it is to program complicated multipurpose programs such as the one you are describing, the more complicated the program, the more effort to design and code them.
If you think that Linear Neural Networks are the only solution (which is not necessarily the same as a Linear Programmed EA, which you seem to think the terms are completely interchangeable), and I am always willing to learn information that might be helpful to me and my knowledge base, please feel free to explain the difference between Linear and Non-Linear Programmed EAs and Linear and Non-Linear Artificial Neural Networks, as it seems you know more about them than I do.
Edit: As far as your example of "honesty and good business," did you happen to look at the price? And also happen to note that it is designed specifically for one style of trading only? I am not saying it can't be done, or that partial examples do not exist out there. Despite your claims, that program, even though it might be self adapting, will not work on all market conditions. In some cases, if it is well designed (I am not going to buy it just to see if it is or not), it just will not trade unless trading conditions match the requirements. But let's say that a user buys that product, and by sheer bad luck in timing, the market does not meet the necessity of the program to make trades, do we then blame the developer for that issue? Or do we, as traders who should be reasonably expected to be responsible for our own knowledge base, understand that the program works fine, but market conditions do not meet the program's needs?
If you have a problem with one specific type of EA, then why not use one that you do not have problems with? It seems that you are trying to encourage people to ask MQ to enact a broad return policy on any and all items sold through them because of your apparent problems with that type of product. It does not matter if I have even heard of either of them, as I am basing my comments on your post.
You can, incorrectly, conclude that as it seems you already have. If it doesn't exist, then it means that a programmer would have to create one, as I suggested if you want one like that, that you should be willing to pay a large amount of money for them to make one. Make one does not mean there is one already. There is no contradiction in what I am saying, but I suspect that there IS one between what you wish to see in someone's responses to your statements, and what is actually being said. A boolean statement was used, and is used, as one of many possible logic decisions within a program, but as it is only one sample, and usually the easiest to understand. I thought, incorrectly it would appear, that you would understand the point I was trying to make by using it.
From my non-existent "self-contradiction," none, but from my college courses on them, enough, and also from seeing what happens in real life, even more. As far as working for "some Hedge Fund," no thanks. I had the opportunity to visit a live trading house (and did so), and the thought of those types of working conditions never really appealed to me. I actually have a degree in Information Systems, and while my specific expertise is not MQL, I am trying to learn it so I can code programs that will help people make money, and also help me make money developing them as well. I strive to be one of those programmers who your well-meaning but misguided policy adjustment would hurt.
You are somewhat right, my knowledge of computer programming in MQL is very limited at the current time. I can only conclude that if you feel that my "constrained logic" hasn't found the type of program that you are looking for, then you must know it is there already or else you wouldn't be on here with this type of discussion. I never claimed to be an expert specifically in programming EAs, but I do know how difficult it is to program complicated multipurpose programs such as the one you are describing, the more complicated the program, the more effort to design and code them.
If you think that Linear Neural Networks are the only solution (which is not necessarily the same as a Linear Programmed EA, which you seem to think the terms are completely interchangeable), and I am always willing to learn information that might be helpful to me and my knowledge base, please feel free to explain the difference between Linear and Non-Linear Programmed EAs and Linear and Non-Linear Artificial Neural Networks, as it seems you know more about them than I do.
Edit: As far as your example of "honesty and good business," did you happen to look at the price? And also happen to note that it is designed specifically for one style of trading only? I am not saying it can't be done, or that partial examples do not exist out there. Despite your claims, that program, even though it might be self adapting, will not work on all market conditions. In some cases, if it is well designed (I am not going to buy it just to see if it is or not), it just will not trade unless trading conditions match the requirements. But let's say that a user buys that product, and by sheer bad luck in timing, the market does not meet the necessity of the program to make trades, do we then blame the developer for that issue? Or do we, as traders who should be reasonably expected to be responsible for our own knowledge base, understand that the program works fine, but market conditions do not meet the program's needs?
The price doesn't matter. Mathematically, you have concluded your wisdom, and I giving all of us a down to earth example.
I am sorry, I don't have the time to answer or read your fantastic understanding of business.
To all Dear Traders, programmers, and users.
I would suggest voting and requesting of all follow users of MQLx.com to send a formal request to Metaqoutes for changing their agreement policy in Market so we could all enjoy a refund within 30 days of any purchase. If the economist and programmer who came up with the idea for the app store in MQLx.com would apply basic Economics to the matters of Cutomer relationship, he/she would conclude that profits will increase if the 30 days refund policy will exist.
But if she/he/you don't agree with me, I don't mind explaining the application of basic economics to improve the profits of MetaQuotes in their app store.
Thank you.
The price doesn't matter. Mathematically, you have concluded your wisdom, and I giving all of us a down to earth example.
I am sorry, I don't have the time to answer or read your fantastic understanding of business.
You seem to want to claim economics based on best-case situations as described in school courses (your economic sociology example and "application of basic economics") and then claim to give a down to earth example, all the while ignoring the real world examples I have given. There is either very few or no real world examples, in the case of computer software, that this type of a policy works. In fact, as I have already pointed out before, many stores have a no-return policy on media (such as music, video, and computer programs), unless there is something specifically wrong with the media's physical condition that would affect it's use, with either limited or no adverse responses from their customers.
And, especially in economics, the price very much matters in the real world.
You seem to want to claim economics based on best-case situations as described in school courses (your economic sociology example and "application of basic economics") and then claim to give a down to earth example, all the while ignoring the real world examples I have given. There is either very few or no real world examples, in the case of computer software, that this type of a policy works. In fact, as I have already pointed out before, many stores have a no-return policy on media (such as music, video, and computer programs), unless there is something specifically wrong with the media's physical condition that would affect it's use, with either limited or no adverse responses from their customers.
And, especially in economics, the price very much matters in the real world.
Here is an outstanding example for honesty and good business :
<link to product removed by mod - you should know better Mr Walker!>
First I would like to say I am very sorry, for promoting someone else's product, while not remembering the rules.
Second, I am going to continue this discussion, while not having time to respond to all of my great friends and followers. Members, owners, Developers, and Customers.
The Financial World, Money matters, and significance of better business models for over all profit.
Dear fellow Developers and business partners of the forum.
As we know all, developing highly sophisticated expert advisors requires deep understanding of market behavior, and some level of mathematics.
As we are offering our knowledge in code to customers with limited understanding of our code practices, statistics, financial models, and the motivations we have in order that we execute sales for our gains, and the trust of our customers with high expectations with little or no poker strategies in the world of finance.
I am quite sure that some of you have many years of programming experience, and knowledge of this business. But I would rather believe that we live in a world of change, and better life conditions, for which it would be most essential to prove our knowledge and experience in order to make real products that would move our market forward into real sophisticated products that deliver at least 30% of the expected returns. Customers are getting clever, and Coders need money in order to break the barriers of complexity.
Everyone of you can make the change. Be more creative, and don't settle for the number of products in accumulated thousands of code lines with no success. Instead develop few meaningful experts that proclaim the knowledge and your enthusiasm to make a change. Advance your knowledge if you feel that you have any limitations. And don't fool yourself by believing that some magical moment will increase your income to over come your financial limitations.
This post is for you all developers and customers alike. As a wish that we will progress in our dreams manifested into reality.
Thank you for your time and patience to read the underline meaning of our communications.