Hidden divergence - page 7
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I get the same impression from you if someone once called reverse divergence (not price divergence relative to an indicator, but indicator divergence relative to price) a convergence, and even if it is written so by the masters of thechanalysis, it does not mean that such a phenomenon is called a convergence. Convergence is "convergence". Where is convergence in your pictures? In one case price goes up, the indicator goes down, in the other case price goes down, the indicator goes up. Where is the divergence? Both are a case of divergence. For the convergence SK has correctly written - we should measure the gradients.
I am basically speechless. Therefore, I will not answer such posts or questions on the basics of thechanalysis anymore. Saving the drowning, as they say, is a matter of the drowning.
I don't know what exactly this refers to (you didn't specify). But let's look at the phrase: - in one case the price goes up, the indicator goes down (my note , so they diverge) in the other case - the price goes down, the indicator goes up(so they converge).
I just don't know what we're talking about: - about the direction of price and indicator movement or about the direction of the lines connecting the price extremums and their corresponding indicator extremums.
As they say in Odessa, they are two big differences.
I was just joking when I was talking to a man from Odesa:
- They say that you have bad meat in Odessa.
- They lie. In Odessa with meat is good, without meat it is bad.
I am basically speechless. Therefore, I will not reply to such posts or to questions on the basics of tehanalysis anymore. Saving the drowning, as they say, is a matter of the drowning.
I don't know what exactly this refers to (you didn't specify). But let's look at the phrase: - in one case the price goes up, the indicator goes down (my note , so they diverge) in the other case - the price goes down, the indicator goes up(so they converge).
I do not understand what we are talking about: - about the direction of price and indicator movement or about the direction of lines connecting price extremums and their corresponding indicator extremums.
As they say in Odessa they are two great differences.
I was just joking when I was talking to a man from Odesa:
- They say that you have bad meat in Odessa.
- They lie. In Odessa they say it's good with meat, but it's bad without meat.
Look at the picture at the bottom of page 6 'Hidden Divergence'.
But let's look at the phrase: - In one case the price goes up, the indicator goes down (my note , that's how they diverge) in the other case the price goes down, the indicator goes up(that's how they converge).
Who says that the price value is higher than the indicator value (if it is not MA) or vice versa. How can you compare degrees and meters?
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s2101
Do you have any statistical studies on the reliability of Divergence (Convergence) signals ?s2101 wrote (a) >>
Your question is the first competent and important question asked of me in this forum. >> Thank you.
That's why I'm not going to answer you now, but I'll suggest you to read two articles, which were the first (only the first) brick of SK-FX high precision trading system, shown at Forex Expo Kiev 2007. After reading them (if you wish) we can continue the conversation.
Since I am also interested in statistics and am waiting for useful information I will also speak about the terms. In particular a very simple rule follows from the above pictures: convergence is a divergence for the downward trends. I do not understand why one phenomenon has two names :) It seems that classics of the analysis never occurred to turn the chart upside down. But perhaps another explanation is more probable: they realized that such a mental exercise demanded from a reader can scare away a large part of clients.) The classics of tehanalysis also knew how to sell their product ;)
s2101
Don't take it personally. The questions you are asked have to do with clarifying wording. There are programmers here and any ambiguous interpretation of any term is often not perceived, because it all has to be explained later to this evil iron to the computer. Believe SK. and Integer are very competent traders and programmers. And their remarks are correct just look carefully. The tilt angle may change (depending on the scale), but the Y position (above, below) remains. I don't like the position of maxima of minima on the X-axis - it depends on the type of selected oscillator and its parameters. And if you rearrange the charts, they may be interpreted ambiguously.
Thank you for these articles, I will read them when I have enough time.
I have a suggestion. If someone will put up the divergence indicator, it will give more concrete talk (I couldn't found it in my stash MTC_OsMA_Diver ). Let's try to investigate it and work out recommendations (requirements) to the oscillator, time interval of operation, etc. based on this research. Classics is good, but "knowledge is the son of errors".
s2101
Don't take it personally. The questions you are asked have to do with clarifying wording. You are programmers here and any ambiguous interpretation of any term is often not perceived, because it all has to be explained to this stupid iron to the computer. Believe SK. and Integer are very competent traders and programmers. And their remarks are correct just look carefully. The tilt angle may change (depending on the scale), but the Y position (above, below) remains. I don't like the position of maxima on the X-axis - it depends on the type of selected oscillator and its parameters. And if you rearrange the charts, they may be interpreted ambiguously.
Thank you for these articles, I will read them when I have enough time.
I have a suggestion. If someone will post the divergence indicator, it will help me to discuss it more concretely (I couldn't find MTC_OsMA_Diver in my stash). Let's try to study it and work out recommendations (requirements) to the oscillator, time interval of operation, etc. based on these studies. Classics is good, but "knowledge is the son of errors".
Absolutely, and the only correct approach :))
Only, before messing around with an indicator (not the most complicated thing, by the way), you should somehow classify it. The author and initiator of the discussion, s2101, about the "wrong interpretation" somewhat disguised - his articles (downloaded from the links, read more than once) do not clarify the situation in any way, and denoted by the titles "are not found" - but I would like to read - a speech at the "expo Kiev" is not impressive, though I like the city :))) - i'm serious......
At the same time, even visually - without statistics and testing, according to charts - the approach is promising :)
There's one thought that this issue in MT4 hasn't been explored in sufficient depth for only one reason - the complexity of coding .... do not kick :) - only now I understood that I am able to code it, not without difficulties, of course.....
So, about classification: it is proposed to divide them (divergences) into two classes: correction and continuation:
further: - correction, (or correct divergence) requires additional confirmation, a.....
- continuation, (or latent) does not require
Now about the decoding: correction - oriented on the reversal: maximum/minimum of the price is not confirmed by the maximum/minimum of the indicator
continuation - trend-focused (continuation of a trend) - new minimum/maximum of the price is not confirmed by the new maximum/minimum of the indicator
And while we are not here to scholastically argue about one or the other, then ..... entry-exit rules, please :) .... otherwise all discussion of statistics loses its meaning - different entry-exit parvals lead only to adjustment, but nothing more, while to collect statistics separately for each is easier to make an expert.....
And do not label each other - a discussion is a discussion :)
A joke from a conversation with an ensign:
- Mr Pr., I have meat for lunch.....
- it's allowed, so eat it....
- so don't.....
- and if it's not allowed then why are you asking?
And if someone can tell me how to normalize OsMA (so that, say, from 0 to 100 fluctuated, with the average, of course, by 50, or in some other way ????),
so that a significance estimation can be done...... well I'm weak in arithmetic, don't be sorry :((
I am basically speechless. Therefore, I will not reply to such posts or to questions on the basics of tehanalysis anymore. Saving the drowning, as they say, is a matter of the drowning.
I don't know what exactly this refers to (you didn't specify). But let's look at the phrase: - in one case the price goes up, the indicator goes down (my note , so they diverge) in the other case - the price goes down, the indicator goes up(so they converge).
I just do not understand what we are talking about: - About the direction of price and indicator movement or about the direction of the lines connecting the price extremums and the indicator extremums corresponding to them.
As they say in Odessa, they are two great differences.
I was just joking when I was talking to a man from Odesa:
- They say that you have bad meat in Odessa.
- They're lying. In Odessa with meat is good, without meat is bad.
good, bad without meat....
You motivate students that way, and here - after "A" should be followed by an emphatic "B" ..... or "AND", without continuation, as usual,..... so you haven't indicated either of them..... - bear with me ;))))
Only jokes come to mind..... dibs on me.... the topic is serious :))))......
Maybe we should open a separate topic.
In general it is interesting, in itself, why suddenly OsMA (9.26.5) is optimal - visually it really is, and the other is not..... and what is so special about it????..... tried to calculate by ZZ what one top differs from another - I did not see any differences...... maybe there are still inquisitive researchers with non-trivial calculation algorithms ???? :)
With the four types of signals you are absolutely right. But they do not stop being either divergence or convergence. And changing terminology always leads from small to large confusion.
Have you done anything to eliminate this confusion :) ?
One thing I can't understand..... you got into a debate - answer the questions - miscommunication only provokes, then don't be offended :)))))
And if it's only interest in your resource in the network supports - then do not justify (just do not initiate the process of counting impressions) - not true everything - on normal sites are evaluated (valued) only the target contigent ..... - in any case - not a subject of discussion :)))))..... here
So what about the signals ? .... unambiguously defined ???
have you done anything to eliminate this confusion :) ?
One thing I can't understand..... you got involved in a debate - answer the questions - miscommunication only provokes, then don't be offended :)))))
And if it's only interest in your resource in the network supports - then do not justify (just do not initiate the process of counting impressions) - not true everything - on normal sites are evaluated (valued) only the target contigent ..... - anyway - not a point of discussion :)))))..... here
So what about signals? .... unambiguously defined ???
And since we are not here to argue scholastically about one or the other, then ..... entry-exit rules, please :).... otherwise the whole conversation about statistics loses its meaning - different entry-exit parvals lead only to a fit, nothing more, and to collect statistics separately for each is easier to make an expert.....1. You don't need to do anything to avoid confusion - you need to stick to common terminology.
2. about my networking resources - try to find even the slightest mention of them.
3. Try to read the 4 articles presented carefully, many questions will go away. In particular the login/logout question. If after reading it, the input/output issue is not clear, read it carefully. If it still does not clear up, this is not a system you need to deal with.
4. =So what about the signals? .... unambiguously defined ??? =
- there will also solve the question of unambiguous signals.
5. =It is interesting, in itself, why suddenly OsMA (9.26.5) is optimal - visually it really is, but the other one is not..... and what is so special about it????..... =
Not 9, 26.5, but 9, 21.5
6. =And if someone can tell me how to normalise OsMA (so that, say, it fluctuates from 0 to 100, with a mean, of course, of 50, or some other way ????), =
Pointless. I already answered in the thread, -The significance of the divergence signal depends not on the signal value (amplitude), but on the place of its generation in the wave hierarchy (wave analysis + trend indicator)
7. =So, about classification: it is proposed to divide them (divergences) into two classes: correction and continuation:
further: - correction, (or proper divergence) requires additional confirmation, a.....=
And this question will be resolved on reading. And many more things will be solved. But other, already important questions will appear.
...a simple rule: the convergence is a divergence for the downwards trends. Why one phenomenon has two names is beyond my comprehension...
Another "ingenious" interpretation of the terms. Approximately the same was true of the previous ones, with moving charts and changing scale.
Good luck to all.
The previous ones looked roughly the same, with the charts moved and the scale changed.
Good luck to everyone.
One gets the impression that you are not listening. You get this monologue...
1. Once again about changing scale. It's simple there. It was about defining the terms more clearly. I tried to show that the divergence and convergence of lines is not a sign of div. and con. because these lines are drawn at independent scales. It is more correct to speak about the positive and negative gradient between the tops on the price chart and the indicator.
2. I asked you a question: what grounds do you have for the statement: "The divergence (conv) signals always occur in any frame and are never false. What can be false is an illiterate interpretation".
If you are going to answer it, please give the name and parameters of the indicator in which this statement is true.
If you want to answer this question, then explain why these very parameters of this indicator, and others do not work? Or it works? What, with any parameters of any indicators? Or just a little bit different?
And finally, let us conclude: may the statement "The divergence signals (contra) are always executed in any frame and are never false" be correct, meaning that we haven't named technical parameters of the indicator or the indicator itself?
And if you're not too lazy, then at your leisure reflect on your phrase "I have the impression that people here are engaged in verbiage" and classify the content of your own statements on the parameter "verbiage".
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Regarding the essence of the issue, I can only repeat that in general I am interested in your statements. But we all should adhere to clear definitions and correct statements while solving this question.