do you own the rights legally? - page 2

Brian Lillard
11670
Brian Lillard  
I'm leary about any sort of a patent like fapturbo. You can see how fapturbo advertises that they actually own a patent if you like 👍

I still don't understand how that can be but I'm sure it would be a good thing for them if the patented code was copied from the public domain and used and then they can then say that they are protected.

Neat where they are copyrighted over there in mql5 land 🙂

Well actually to be honest the copyright office said to me the patent and trademark office was separate then them but I guess that they could have a copyright when you have computer software and DLLs? It could be false advertising as nothing comes up with patents.google.com

I wonder how the copyright office feels about programming a trading strategy in a DLL with software. Not really sure about v3 but I had v1 but I forget now

A patent it says and not a copyright and no patent to be found 
JeeyCi
67
JeeyCi  
Brian Lillard # :

 Who can own all those strategies that we know of?   Would they be entitled to all your profit if you used those strategies?

your money for your work are always yours...

but if you're asking such a question - perhaps you want to be entitled to somebody's profit ? (while thinking how to do it with a mean of copyright) ?

do you own the rights legally?
do you own the rights legally?
  • 2021.08.27
  • www.mql5.com
I never really cared until I heard so many like cruel and selfish fellows talk about this subject without any proof...
Brian Lillard
11670
Brian Lillard  
I hope I'm not coming across the wrong way to get any answers because it doesn't help me to come across sounding greedy or something else giving away strategies to trade for free. Nothing else has swayed my opinion but my viewpoints on a strategy being only an idea of which is not owned by a single entity and therefore a safe and useful tool for everyone to develop a good reputation. Only concern I had I'll bring up again was how freelancer work being sold out from under me so that would have meant his account but I guess it doesn't help and it's not a Tylenol 😶
JeeyCi
67
JeeyCi  

Brian Lillard #  how freelancer work being sold out from under me

this is about sales, not about copyright or marketing, in all times resellers acts...

if you have sold the work of your authorship then the buyer can do with it everything he would like... if he will include copyright or your name into his content, if he is using the part or the whole of your code, - depends on him OR/AND your agreement when making selling/purchasing... that's all!.. -- and it is only about naming, branding, self-advertisement & recognition in mass media and/or social environment (these are talked about separately with a buyer)... neither about ownership nor about the policy of distribution - freelancer have already sold & the buyer have already bought the work of freelancer's brain (materialized into either article, or web-design or software or only library etc)

do you own the rights legally?
do you own the rights legally?
  • 2021.09.12
  • www.mql5.com
I never really cared until I heard so many like cruel and selfish fellows talk about this subject without any proof...
JeeyCi
67
JeeyCi  
Brian Lillard #:
 giving away strategies to trade for free.

as a developer you should have your own ways to do your code NOT to be open_source - it's up to you... and of course the easiest way is to compile your project in any .dll (if you'd like to trade your intellectual proprietorship)... you'd better to look through Intellectual Property Law, I'm not a lawer... I consider this forum to exist for traders & mql-developers to share their ideas

Revo Trades
526
Revo Trades  
Brian Lillard #:

i am not aware of that product, however, i doubt that they have a patent. I often see that claim, however, patents cost a lot of $$$ and they take a lot of time during the application process, so i have serious doubts about any patent claims on a trading strategy or ea/robot. They might have a patent on a custom maed trading software, however, I doubt that that software is an ea or indicator that works in mt4/5, as that software is already patented by metaquotes. Even if they have a patent on the dll, they dont have the patent on the trading software, they may have the patent on a part of the robot, or the dll, as JeeyCi has mentioned. However I also agree with JeeyCi that a dll might be the safer way to put some security on a dll or an original "include" file OR  "library" file, which would be compiled into the trading ea; however, as i said the patent or copyright would be on that original file, not on the final compiled file. So, any claim that you have a patent on the compiled file would be a falsehood.

JeeyCi
67
JeeyCi  
Revo Trades #:

 patents cost a lot of $$$ and they take a lot of time during the application process,

yes, therefore I mentioned that if you're having some expenses, they becomes the part of the cost of your product & you'd probably input this cost into the final price of your product - will your product still be at a reasonable price for the common buyer? - this is just a question of pricing & demand ...

Revo Trades #:

  however, I doubt that that software is an ea or indicator that works in mt4/5, as that software is already patented by metaquotes. ... Even if they have a patent on the dll...

software itself could not be patented (it has only authorship), only any Algorithm used in it can be patented, if it is really considered to be the invention! (usually technical or any other material) - that has real material usefulness & complexity... though requirements placed on the patentee, and the extent of the exclusive rights vary widely between countries according to national laws and international agreements  ...

but software product is the concern of the authorship... though again: requirements placed on the patentee, and the extent of the exclusive rights vary widely between countries according to national laws and international agreements  ...

patent gives you exclusive rights for manufacturing patented device! ( or e.g. bio-material or etc. ) & thus getting profit from this manufacturing,-  but only for the exact period of time (usually for 20 years)...

and you can sign licenses for your counterparties...

but again, it is out of freelance - if you're not signing any commercial documents with your buyers, as a freelancer, & buyers are not interested in your license -- you will just get expenses & no return of them... because I'm saying again - you do not invent something (when creating the robot EA) of really complex & useful  to patent it in order to avoid counterfeit in the market...

I prefer to think about usefulness of patent as a mean of defense of technically complex products- in order not to have the responsibility to provide service for the counterfeit (when really your invention can be done with somebody who do not know the technology & then users are asking you, as a producer, to act according the guarantee obligations - in such a case you should be sure that this product is yours & not any hand-made with your label)... license - is the responsibility & patent gives rights for licensing as well as exlusive producing

p.s.

)) I do not know why & whom & what the topic-starter wants to prove?.. either that he is a genius or that traders & developers dream of earning with his robot... I repeat once again: most (even all) traders & developers earn with their own brain anyway... and your robot is the result of the work of your brain... you can share it, sell it, but I doubt that anybody will overpay for licensing the work of your brain... and besides I doubt that your robot is having real complexity that should be defended by the law... if you really have created a super-complex- Algorithm- you can patent it -- in order to avoid any complains for in-adequate use of your algorithm (giving people license that your algorithm is legal)...

THUS, patent is not about additional profit, but about additional expenses (as Revo Trades  said) & obligations to  license each selling... and preferably the service to get complains for your algorithm to be broken (if it will occur to be such)

do you own the rights legally?
do you own the rights legally?
  • 2021.09.12
  • www.mql5.com
I never really cared until I heard so many like cruel and selfish fellows talk about this subject without any proof...
Revo Trades
526
Revo Trades  
JeeyCi #:


The only thing i dont agree with you 100% is that products that are not unique are "patented" every day. Even plants and rocks and different bacteria and genes are patented, and yet none of these are invented or unique, But as you hinted at: a patent gives authority to the seller and buyers are then sucked into the marketing trap; but I am unsure if this is the op's goal. they have mentioned different goals, but they mention different goal each time they post. If all they want is to ensure that the ea or indicator has proof of whom coded it when they give out the file, then, whats wrong with just adding their name to the description line in the code of the ea or indicator? That is all they need to do, OR if they have the expertise, write a dll, like you said, which just contains a stamp and tag mentioning their name and signature, and guarantee that that dll is compiled with the ea/indicator. Anyway, this will be my last post on this topic. This topic has been discussed at length throughtout the forum. The op only needs to do a search and they will get a repeat of everything we said, but said by other posters haha.

Brian Lillard
11670
Brian Lillard  
Thanks. I just feel it was important for us to find what made an expert or indicator protected by copyright by seeking answers which you could not normally find.

A copyright grants the creator permissions on how others can use their work or if they can use it at all. Open source speaks for itself yet you see they may put some details as to who they believe owns a copyright and what conditions others have to use it which may seem irrelevant. 

For the sake of the matter it is never quite clear what is public knowledge for copyrights.

The copyright registration for a computer program which is not open source and which has a particular license obviously needs copyright protection for businesses which seek to have authority over potential liabilities.

Maybe the idea concept is better understood as originality. When a copyright is used for a purpose which should not be duplicated without permission. So trading strategies may be like programming languages which may not be copyrighted as being original but the compiler may which is such that the use of it was authorized by it being all original like C++ MT4/5
Revo Trades
526
Revo Trades  
Brian Lillard #:
Thanks. I just feel it was important for us to find what made an expert or indicator protected by copyright by seeking answers which you could not normally find.

A copyright grants the creator permissions on how others can use their work or if they can use it at all. Open source speaks for itself yet you see they may put some details as to who believe owns a copyright and what conditions you have to use it which may seem irrelevant. 

For the sake of the matter it is never quite clear what is public knowledge for copyrights.

yes, copyright can do that; specify who can use the product and/or how they can use it. However, if there is 1 thing that is clear about both copyright and patents, its that once you have posted code or your idea of your product on the internet, whether that be by email attachment or you post it on freelance to be created or modified by a 2nd coder, OR on a tv show called "The Inventors", that is considered to be clearly "public knowledge". This also includes posting your code to the mql cloud for encrypting, because your file has to be recieved by another computer to be encrypted, therefore you are not in personal posession of it anymore, therefore it is in public domain and/or public knowledge. However, many copyrights and patents are filed every day that do not follow the rule of law. Remember the governments get money for giving out copyrights and patents, so unless you are too honest with the details that you put in your application, there is a good chance that you will recieve your copyright or patent. That is how there are billions of patents in the US of A, and the courts are full of suites between big companies because both have patents and copyrights that are almost 100% same products. That is why big companies spend millions on ensureing that their product is unique BEFORE they make the application in the first place; to save themselves more money later on. They then can monitor new patents that are approved, and when they find one that is similar to their own product they make a formal complaint to the patents officials, and get that new patent rejected, otherwise the patents office would approve patents for both products that are virtually the same.

but why do you  " feel it was important for us to find what made an expert or indicator protected by copyright ". I have never seen or heard of an ea or indicator, at least first hand knowledge of; having copyright or any sort of patent, in my life. I have read from various sellers that they have a patent, but they never show any sort of proof of any sort. Such sellers are just scammers imo. Why would you not show your copyright or patent proof, if you had either of them?