Restarting Metatrader does not help to see updated expert list - page 2

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Ubzen
5298
Ubzen  
gchrmt4:

If you're right and you're testing this correctly with the new builds then, no, I can't explain why. The release notes for build 574 explicitly say that this change and migration happens for all installations, regardless of UAC settings.

I've seen new MT4 installations which, for some reason, use <mt4>\MQL4\experts even without /portable mode being invoked, but that's different to a continuing use of <mt4>\experts.

Yep, I just re-verify it.

I turned UAC back on. Created a new EA called TestingZ and it created the file within the VirtualStore. No-where to be found within C:\mt4\mql4\expert.

Then I turned it back off. Created a new EA called TestingX and that one showed up under C:\mt4\mql4\expert.

Extra Info ***I believe it Copied the EAs I had within the C:\mt4\mql4\expert to the VirtualStore when I turned UAC back-on.

gchrmt4
276
gchrmt4  
ubzen:

Yep, I just re-verify it.

I turned UAC back on. Created a new EA called TestingZ and it created the file within the VirtualStore. No-where to be found within C:\mt4\mql4\expert.

Then I turned it back off. Created a new EA called TestingX and that one showed up under C:\mt4\mql4\expert.

***I believe it Copied the EAs I had within the C:\mt4\mql4\expert to the VirtualStore when I turned UAC back-on.

What you are describing is covered by MT4 operating in /portable mode, either because you have deliberately turned this on or because, like in my previous post, there seem to be some copies of MT4 which always go into /portable mode.

For example:

* In /portable mode, EX4 files are read from within the MT4 installation folder.

* But they are not read from the traditional <mt4>\experts directory. They are read from <mt4>\MQL4\experts

* If you have a copy of MT4 which (a) is - somehow - in /portable mode and which (b) is also in a protected area, then UAC virtualization will kick in. If you try to save a .mq4 file in <mt4>\mql4\experts then the O/S will virtualize this to %localappdata%\VirtualStore\<mt4>\mql4\experts

* But MT4 will still not be looking in the 9-year-old experts directory. It will be looking in MQL4\experts

* In this scenario what you have is a combination of a change to the MT4 locations plus UAC virtualization by the operating system.

This combination should only happen if you deliberately invoke /portable mode (and presumably understand the consequences). But I've seen copies of MT4 which go into /portable mode by themselves.

Ubzen
5298
Ubzen  
gchrmt4:

What you are describing is covered by MT4 operating in /portable mode, either because you have deliberately turned this on or because, like in my previous post, there seem to be some copies of MT4 which always go into /portable mode.

For example:

* In /portable mode, EX4 files are read from within the MT4 installation folder.

* But they are not read from the traditional <mt4>\experts directory. They are read from <mt4>\MQL4\experts

* If you have a copy of MT4 which (a) is - somehow - in /portable mode and which (b) is also in a protected area, then UAC virtualization will kick in. If you try to save a .mq4 file in <mt4>\mql4\experts then the O/S will virtualize this to %localappdata%\VirtualStore\<mt4>\mql4\experts

* But MT4 will still not be looking in the 9-year-old experts directory. It will be looking in MQL4\experts

* In this scenario what you have is a combination of a change to the MT4 locations plus UAC virtualization by the operating system.

This combination should only happen if you deliberately invoke /portable mode (and presumably understand the consequences). But I've seen copies of MT4 which go into /portable mode by themselves.

I've read about /Portable but never used it, and even now I don't know how unless I look it up.

I had mt5 on the machine. Then I installed the Beta. Then I decided to turn UAC off. In that order.

I taught the c:\mt4\mql4\experts\ setup was universal for everyone.

You mean someone can install Beta and get old folder structure like c:\mt4\experts\my_expert.mq4 ?

If so, how would that be done?

gchrmt4
276
gchrmt4  
ubzen:

I taught the \mql4\experts\ setup was universal for everyone.

You mean someone can install Beta and get old expert structure like c:\mt4\experts\my_expert.mq4 ?

No. I'll try to be clearer:

A. I have not seen the new MT4 builds use the old <mt4>\experts structure. They migrate files from that, but they do not use it.

B. The new structure is MQL4\indicators instead of experts\indicators etc

C. Most MT4 installations use %appdata%\MetaQuotes\terminal\xxxx\MQL4\indicators etc

D. But I've seen copies of MT4 which use <mt4>\MQL4\indicators instead of %appdata%\MetaQuotes\terminal\xxxx\MQL4\indicators (but not the traditional <mt4>\experts\indicators)

E. According to the release notes, scenario D is only meant to happen instead of scenario C if you deliberately use /portable mode, but I've seen examples where D kicks in automatically. It seems that you are one of these examples.

...And in scenario D/E, you can still be affected by UAC virtualization - despite the fact that the whole reason for the change from experts\indicators to MQL4\experts\indicators is in order to avoid this (except where deliberately invoked with /portable).

Ubzen
5298
Ubzen  
gchrmt4:

No. I'll try to be clearer:

A. I have not seen the new MT4 builds use the old <mt4>\experts structure. They migrate files from that, but they do not use it.

B. The new structure is MQL4\indicators instead of experts\indicators etc

C. Most MT4 installations use %appdata%\MetaQuotes\terminal\xxxx\MQL4\indicators etc

D. But I've seen copies of MT4 which use <mt4>\MQL4\indicators instead of %appdata%\MetaQuotes\terminal\xxxx\MQL4\indicators (but not the traditional <mt4>\experts\indicators)

E. According to the release notes, scenario D is only meant to happen instead of scenario C if you deliberately use /portable mode, but I've seen examples where D kicks in automatically. It seems that you are one of these examples.

...And in scenario D/E, you can still be affected by UAC virtualization - despite the fact that the whole reason for the change from experts\indicators to MQL4\experts\indicators is in order to avoid this (except where deliberately invoked with /portable).

I'll try to be clearer too.

The reason I turned off UAC is because I didn't want %appdata%\MetaQuotes\terminal\xxxx\MQL4\. I don't mind the \mql4\expert\ because this is what I expect and already used to seeing it within mt5.

When I read the OP question, it sounds to me like allot of people do-not know how to navigate to the Virtual Store. They go through the installation folder looking for their Experts. \mql4\expert\ doesn't confuse them ... and I do-not believe its relevant.

The virtual_store is what confuses them. Should they turn-off UAC or use /Portable they'll not have any problems with the extra folder. But thats just my take on it.

gchrmt4
276
gchrmt4  
ubzen:

When I read the OP question, it sounds to me like allot of people do-not know how to navigate to the Virtual Store.

The OP - eventually - refers to %appdata%. The operating system's VirtualStore is in %localappdata%, not %appdata%

That information from the OP isn't 100% complete or reliable, but it looks as though - unlike you, but like most people who have commented on this forum so far - the default behavior of MT4 on aed71's computer is to create files in %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 instead of <mt4>\MQL4.

From the available information, it seems more likely that the OP's files are not being put in the VirtualStore.

(For confirmation: %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 isn't the same as the VirtualStore. They are completely different locations. The former is an independent choice by MetaQuotes; the latter is transparent and automatic redirection by Windows.)

This exchange is a good example of the chaos. Across builds 509 and 579 there are now 5 different locations in which EAs can be stored (plus indicators, scripts, the old "experts\files" etc):

* <mt4>\experts

* Automatic operating-system virtualization of the above into %localappdata%\virtualstore\<mt4>\experts

* %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4\experts

* <mt4>\MQL4\experts

* Automatic operating-system virtualization of the above into %localappdata%\virtualstore\<mt4>\MQL4\experts

Ubzen
5298
Ubzen  
gchrmt4: unlike you, but like most people who have commented on this forum so far - the default behavior of MT4 on aed71's computer is to create files in %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 instead of <mt4>\MQL4.

The default location for me is also %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 .

gchrmt4
276
gchrmt4  
ubzen:

The default location for me is also %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 .

I'm now completely lost. <g>

Under what circumstances does MT4 put your files into the VirtualStore instead of into %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 ?

(Can you imagine what it's going to be like as a moderator of this forum over the next 18 months?)

Ubzen
5298
Ubzen  
gchrmt4:

I'm now completely lost. <g>

Under what circumstances does MT4 put your files into the VirtualStore instead of into %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 ?

(Can you imagine what it's going to be like as a moderator of this forum over the next 18 months?)

Again when UAC is turned-on ( like it is for most people using windows 7 )

When someone installs mt4-beta or mt5.

The default location is %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4. <- This is what I was referring to as Virtual Store.

I said Virtual Store because I didn't want to type the above path. Which Technically xxxx isn't a folder on anyone's computer.

I didn't want to go through %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4 so I turned-off UAC.

The above have the same effect as /Portable.

........................................................

........................................................

There's no reason to switch the issue to what I meant when I said Virtual Store. Thanks to you I understand that theres a difference between Virtual_Store and %appdata%\MetaQuotes\Terminal\xxxx\MQL4.

You saying UAC has nothing to-do with the location Files are Saved is what I need to understand. Why is it that when I turn-off UAC, experts start being saved in ( lord I'm gonna have to spell out another folder path ) C:\Fx_Beta\MQL4\Experts ... instead of the Default AppData\Roaming\MetaQuotes\Terminal\B67DF91160B009EF20900284883359FA\MQL4\Experts?

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