MANUAL TRADING. The search for the Holy Grail.
I have looked high and low in the forum, but found only fragments of discussions on things that might end up here. There are lots of present (and future) MQL5 members who have never really touched a line of MT4/MT5 code who love to trade - like me. And we need a forum spot to discuss some very powerful ideas. I have a very unique perspective that I want to share with those who are interested--including my greatest trading epiphany.
Many of the principles discussed in this thread will be directly applicable to programming a great EA, but lets focus on the HUMAN side--since the market is truly the embodiment of human emotion. Face it--the true value of the pork bellies or the EUR/USD really doesn't change that much in 60 minutes. Its the humans who are shaking things up. Just toss in a little fear and greed and stand back and watch in amazement. Then the action really takes off-- like popcorn in a microwave!
That emotion drives many new traders crazy and close to the brink of destruction. And some literally lose everything-including damaging relationships with loved ones. Despair sets in. They can lose thousands of dollars in mere minutes. Personally, I lost over $100k in a just 24 months, so I am well qualified to talk about the all-encompassing emotional side of trading. In a panic, I ran from one signal service to another (over 50), one guru to another, one EA to another, changing from stocks to options to FX to futures and back to FX again.
Yes, I am embarrassed to share my story, but after talking with many traders, I realize that it is not just my story. This is the story of 95% men and women who are successful in their professions and intelligent, but naively venture into the markets -- like sheep among the wolves. And promptly get their heads handed to them on a platter.
So let's find some courage and deal with the realities of manual trading and stop denying the elephant in the room.
What is my unique perspective? I have learned enough to be successful. It has taken me 7 years and thousands of hours, but I am happy to report that I have become consistently profitable as a manual trader. I can finally breathe and have some confidence again.
But where have I really arrived??? Surprisingly, back where I started: EMOTION! Now I can control mine, and I can truly understand the emotion of other traders and can turn it into a profit. The very thing that did me in is now my strength.
Several large trading services actually employ market psychologists. I laughed in disbelief when I first heard it. My arrogance and stupidity made me think that I was better than the average human filled with emotion. But now I get it. And I have finally admitted that I am filled with lots of emotion. And it's okay. That is what it means to be human.
And ironically, in all my searching for perfection in an indicator, I have also come
full circle: Believe it or not, I can now trade with NO indicators at all - just price. I thought it was impossible.
So my huge epiphany is this: There is no avoiding emotion in trading. You have to go through it. Emotion is to be embraced and then controlled. And there no magic indicator. The search may turn up improvements in entries and exits, but when all is said and done -- The Holy Grail is Discipline.
More to come...
Take a look at the market in a new way! This is the newest trading method worthy of your attention!
Tired of catching the market movements? TTT FXnew is an essential tool for trend followers. This is a unique breakout indicator that automatically plots new trend lines every day forming blue and red triangles using OCHL values of the previous day. A market entry is performed when the price exits the triangles through the dotted line. If the yellow line crosses the red one after opening of the da
The indicator displays divergence for any custom indicator. You only need to specify the indicator name; DeMarker is used by default.
Additionally, you can opt for smoothing of values of the selected indicator and set levels whose crossing will trigger an alert. The custom indicator must be compiled (a file with ex5 extension) and located under MQL5/Indicators of the client terminal or in one of the subdirectories. It uses the zero buffer of the specified indicator with default parameters.
The script is intended for automatic placing of Sell Stop pending orders, Stop Losses and Take Profits on the user specified levels. This script is not that useful as "Virtual pending buy stop", since short positions are opened as Bid price crosses the levels. Thus spread widening is not dangerous. Nevertheless, you need to have this script to prevent unwanted hitting of the Stop Loss levels.
Automation of the process of placing the Sell Stop pending orders, Stop Losses and T
Main Pivots is an indicator which looks for pivots points on preset intervals (days, weeks, months, years, etc.). Then all extreme points are checked for splice and consistent support and resistance lines are formed. These lines are useful for detecting the best pivot points.
It finds a pair of pivot lines for each interval which correspond to Low (support line) and High (resistance line) of the price movement on the interval. Difference between these lines represemt the price movement for the
Exp COPYLOT CLIENT for MT5 is a copier for the МetaТrader 5 platform. It copies forex trades from any accounts. Including those from terminals МТ5 and МТ4.
Install the Expert Advisor in the terminal where you want to copy trades. Specify any text label name as pathRead, for example, "COPY". This should match the master terminal (to bind the two terminals). To copy trades, you need to install the free Master copier in the terminal from where you want to copy the trades: COPYLOT
Fast Copy MT5 allows to copy trades between different MetaTrader 5 (netting)(hedge) and MetaTrader 4 accounts in any direction and amount, quickly and easily (without loading the system).
Any type of copying is available
MT5 —> MT5 MT5 —> MT4 MT4 —> MT5 MT4 —> MT4
* For any interaction with the MT4, it is necessary to additionally install Fast Copy MT4
One tool for sending and receiving transactions: [master] > [slave] operation mode can be selected in
A script for opening a grid of orders
If you need to quickly open several pending orders (Buy Limit, Sell Limit, Buy Stop, Sell Stop) on a certain distance from the current price, this script will do all the routine for you! Allow AutoTrading before running the script.
Run the script on a chart.
Language of messages displayed (EN, RU, DE, FR, ES) - language of the output messages (English, Russian, German, French, Spanish). Price for open - open price. If set to
Safe Automatic is a safe MetaТrader 5 trading robot working autonomously on a VPS server. The good results are achieved on EURUSD.
The EA applies modified versions of a trend-following strategy, half-pyramiding, scalping, Elliott Wave method and speculating trading with a deposit protection. The EA switches the strategies automatically. The program also takes the news calendar into account: the robot does not enter the market in a 10-minute interval before and after a news rel
This indicator allows you to enjoy the two most popular products for analyzing request volumes and market deals at a favorable price:
Actual Depth of Market Chart Actual Tick Footprint Volume ChartThis product combines the power of both indicators and is provided as a single file.
The functionality of Actual COMBO Depth of Market AND Tick Volume Chart is fully identical to the original indicators. You will enjoy the power of these two products combined into the single super-indicator!
The Expert Advisor implements the classic "triangular arbitrage", which is successfully used by hedge funds.
"Triangular" arbitrage refers to a class of neutral-market strategies, in which the profit or loss of open positions does not depend on the direction of the market movement as a whole.
In order to take profit, the EA exploits a weak spot of market makers - it utilizes the difficulty of balancing cross rates of all currency pairs.
The advantages of the strategy are the following:
Does not support hedging orders on a single symbol on MT5
MultiMTCopier MT5Receiver - new and improved multi-terminal positions copier for your real/demo account, works faster, requires less, flexible in managing and upgrading, new information support. This Expert Advisor is designed for the MetaTrader 5 terminal, trades will be copied into this terminal.
The EA will copy all positions without delays Additionally integrated notification in situations requiring user attention
qAutoActivation indicator is one of the main components of Trading Chaos Expert trading expert panel. The indicator displays the current trend on the current timeframe. This is the first indicator that is attached to the chart and saved in the trading complex template. It defines what trading signals from the expert panel should be automated for market entry (bullish or bearish ones).
When the trend changes, the indicator changes the line color and, at the same time, highlights the trading pane
We present you an effective software solution for arbitrage between brokers.
The Arbitrage on the market became widespread due to decentralization. There are many liquidity providers, whose quotes differ for various reasons. By tracking the dynamics of changes in the quotes of different brokers, it is possible to determine the delayed and leading brokers, thereby predicting the future prices of the delayed broker for a short time. Knowing these prices and using efficient built-in software filte
The most profitable trend traders are the ones who know how to recognize not only the market trend, but also the trading opportunities that arise once a trend has been established. The Pz Trend Trading indicator has been designed to profit has much as possible from trends taking place in the maket.
Established trends offer dozens of trading opportunities, but most trend trading indicators neglect them completely, and leave the trader completely uninformed about what the market is doing during a
If you want something as below:
Sell FOREX trading signal. Manage multiple accounts. Follow the trading from somebody."TradeCopier_follow" and "TradeCopier_source" can help you!
Copying from one source (master) account to multiple follower (slave) accounts. Allow investor (read only) password for the source (master) account. There are no complicated settings and input parameters, everything is easy. Works with different Brokers. Works with different symbols (EURUSD_FX, e
If you want something as below:
Sell FOREX trading signal. Manage multiple accounts. Follow somebody's trading."TradeCopier_source" and "TradeCopier_follow" can help you!
Copying from one source (master) account to multiple follower (slave) accounts. Allow investor (read only) password for the source (master) account. There are no complicated settings and input parameters, everything is easy. Works with different Brokers. Works with different symbols (EURUSD_FX, eurusd_m
Using the width between the Bollinger Bands called BandWidth, this system finds times of low volatility also known as a squeeze. It is called a squeeze because as the bands compress, they tend to expand again into higher volatility and the price can trend along the upper or lower band. This system finds low volatility and enters a new position when the price moves to the upper or lower Bollinger Bands.
The SMA used to create the Bollinger Bands is used as a trailing exit. After the price follow
Averager is intended for averaging your deals that has had a drawdown or had gone against the trend.
An example of operation of the averager in an Exeprt Advisor in the MetaTrader 5 terminal: Exp - TickSniper. The system is identical to the averaging system created for MetaTrader 4. A demo version of the averager for MetaTrader 5: Averager DEMO.Note: this is not an automated trading system (the EA doesn't work in the strategy tester). It monitors your deals and averages them in case o
Auto Trade Copier is designed to copy trades between multi MetaTrader 5 accounts/terminals with 100% accuracy.
With this tool, you can act as either a provider (source) or a receiver (destination). All trading actions will be copied from the provider to the receiver with no delay.
Note: Demo version for testing can be downloaded at: https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/5006.
Followings are highlight features:
Switch between Provider or Receiver role within one tool.One provider can copy tr
Market Profile defines a number of day types that can help the trader to determine market behaviour. A key feature is the Value Area, representing the range of price action where 70% of trading took place. Understanding the Value Area can give traders valuable insight into market direction and establish the higher odds trade. It is an excellent addition to any system you may be using.
Blahtech Limited presents their Market Profile indicator for the MetaTrader community. Inspired by Jim Dalton’s
VirtualTradePad - is a contol panel for working with orders in МetaТrader 5 : buy, sell, buystop, buylimit, sellstop, selllimit, close, delete, modify, tralling stop.
VirtualTradePad won 2nd prize in the "Best Control Panel in the MQL5 Language" Contest.
The panel consists of 5 tabs.
VirtualTradePad PositionsStyle VirtualTradePad Ordersstyle VirtualTradePad SignalsStyleDemo version of the panel - VirtualTradePad LiteProfit or Loss PadINFO PadYou can also try this panel for
Does not support hedging orders on a single symbol on MT5
MultiMTCopier MT5Source - new and improved multi-terminal positions copier for your real / demo account, works faster, requires less, flexible in managing and upgrading, new information support. This expert is designed for terminal MetaTrader5 from which the position will be copied.
The EA will copy all positions without delays Additionally integrated notification in situations requiring user attention Buttons for re
The script allows users to easily close positions if their profit/loss reaches or exceeds a value specified in pips.
Please set slippage value first. Sometimes some positions do not close due to high volatility of the market. Please set larger slippage or restart the script.
COSMOS4U Volume indicator facilitates your trade decisions. It gives confirmation of the running movement and market trends. It highlights current and past accumulation and distribution volumes, comparing them to moving average volume and the highest volume. In addition, it identifies and marks nuances as well as convergence and divergence patterns of bears and bulls in order to provide the market trend and price ranges.
The supported features are as follows:
Fast Volume Moving Average Slow
The indicator determines the inside bar and marks its High/Low. It is plotted based on the closed candles (does not redraw). The identified inside bar can be displayed on the smaller periods. You may set a higher period (to search for the inside bar) and analyze on a smaller one. Also you can see the levels for Mother bar.
Period to find Inside Bar — the period to search for the inside bar. If a specific period is set, the search will be performed in that period. Al
The indicator represents an additional chart window with a lower time frame where bars are combined into groups that are equivalent in time to main chart time frame. Bars are synchronized by the right hand side of the window, i.e. the time of the last bar in the main window corresponds to the time of the last bar group in the additional window. The maximum number of groups is 16; the maximum number of bars combined into groups in the additional window is 256. Limitations on the numbers are requi
Trade Copier Pro is a powerful tool to copy trade remotely between multiple accounts at different locations over internet. This is an ideal solution for signal provider, who want to share his trade with the others globally on his own rules. One provider can copy trades to multiple receivers and one receiver can get trade from multiple providers as well. The provider can even set the subscription expiry for each receiver, so that receiver will not be able to receive the signal after that
The script creates account summary report in a separate window.
The report can be created for all deals and on deals for selected financial instruments.
It is possible to specify a time interval of calculation and save report to htm-file.
The script creates account summary report in a separate window.
The report can be created for all deals and for deals of the selected financial instruments.
It is possible to specify a time interval of calculation and save report to htm-file.
The script is intended for automatic placing of Buy Stop pending orders, Stop Losses and Take Profits on the user specified levels.
Avoiding unwanted entering a long position in case of false hitting the level as a result of widening of the spread by a dealing center. Avoiding unwanted triggering of a Stop Loss in case a quote pierces a significant level (fractal) without further confirmation with the close price. Setting a necessary virtual order and entering the market in
The fractal analysis of the markets is used in the indicator operation algorithm. According to the fractals theory, after the breakthrough of the fractal level confirmed by the closing price located below or above the fractal, the trend wave in the direction of the breakthrough starts to develop. Until the fractal has been passed in the opposite direction, the trend is considered to be acting even if the price is flat or moves backwards. If a bullish fractal has been previously broken through on
So my huge epiphany is this: There is no avoiding emotion in trading. You have to go through it. Emotion is to be embraced and then controlled. And there no magic indicator. The search may turn up improvements in entries and exits, but when all is said and done, truly-- The Holy Grail is Discipline
This site is all about the programming of mql that is why you will not find what you are looking for.
There are plenty of trading forums sites on the web which cover your topic.
Once MQL5 turned on the "Signals" switch, they invited tens of thousands of non-programmers to the site. Times are changing for sure!
Think of the new revenue stream for all the existing programmers as they eagerly embrace all the newbies. Some may decide to become programmers, but most just want to subscribe to great signals. And they have lots of cash to spend.
And then there are the non-programmers (like me) on this site who are now permitted post signals. I only trade manually, but am now ranked 3rd out of 600 for MT4 Real systems with over 190 subscribers. (I just have to hang on them now!)
The more good systems that are in the signals section (automated and manual)--the more traffic this site will get. In fact, the growth could be exponential.
So I propose that this site is no longer just about "the programming of mql," but it encompasses much more--to everyone's benefit. And I also think that all programmers who read this thread will probably find at least one good nugget in their quest to capture the essence of human emotion in their algorithms.
Actually it isn't . . . the mql4 Forum is "This resource is a site where traders interested in MetaQuotes Language 4 and automated trading systems communicate." but the same restriction does not apply to this Forum, check the rules.
It has taken me 7 years and thousands of hours, but I am happy to report that I have become consistently profitable as a manual trader.
Short version: On my signal system, my goal is 2% safe growth each day. Over the last 3 weeks I have averaged about 6% per day - safely, with a nice flat curve.
Long: Over the past 7 years I traded stocks, options, FX, futures, and then options on futures. Then I tried FX and futures all over again. Over the past 5 years, I have started over 100 systems on the big
signal-following sites. I also followed over 50 signals from other
traders - but all sucked my accounts dry. Finally I had no other option than to play around with a $25 micro-lot FX account! I used to blame all my troubles on those stupid signal providers and of course, Ben Bernanke! LOL. But I have gotten smarter now, and I don't blame anyone but myself.
16 months ago I started to write in my trading journal, seeing what I was doing right and wrong. I realized that I kept anticipating the market instead of waiting for the signal. And I had a very strong directional bias from "gurus" I was following, and it was sabotaging me. But I was careful to keep my margin under control and really obey my rules. I then had my first breakthrough; I took my system on the biggest FX signal site from number 9,000+ to number 42 in just 4 weeks! I was ecstatic.
But my success was short lived. During the 2011 holidays, I traded on very thin volume. To make matters worse, I didn't honor my stops. I just "knew" that the market was about to reverse. My account died again. However, there was a silver lining. Not only did I catch the vision of what was possible but I also got the attention of a fabulous futures trader who had successfully traded up to 100 S&P contracts at a time. He took me under his wing, spending hours teaching me.
The bottom line for him was "Simplicity + Discipline = Success." He convinced me that taking small losses was part of the game. That it didn't take many good wins to create a positive day IF I didn't blow it with a huge stupid loss. Following my rules was the key to it all. He made me unsubscribe from all my "gurus" so I could only trade what I see. And he showed me the possibility of trading without any indicators. I have taken what he showed me and applied it to the FX market and made it my own now.
I really like these quotes from the article in Investopedia called "How to Develop a Trading Brain" :
"No other profession creates so many and such intense emotions and
reflects so much of our personalities."
"The fundamental role of trader
psychology tends to be underestimated and too much emphasis placed on
technical side. While both are essential, it is arguably the right
mindset that differentiates successful from unsuccessful traders.
However, learning the technical aspects of trading is more
straightforward than acquiring a top-notch trading brain. The latter
generally entails working intensely on one's own personality traits and
eradicating entrenched behavioral patterns. This process is not easy and
requires dedication, time, and often, the aid of a skilled coach.
Nevertheless, the results are very likely to reap dividends."
My goal is 2 to 4% growth on my account each day, depending on the movement of the market. For the last three weeks I have averaged about 6% daily. This is the best I have ever done. I will do my best to keep it up until my broker says "max lots reached!" And then I will open two accounts and start over again.
... So let's find some courage and deal with the realities of manual trading and stop denying the elephant in the room. ...
Yes, fully agree. I was confused with the title of the thread in the beginning ... but for now - I understand that it is 'the anti-search of ...' :)
Anyway - you made a good post.
You are probably wondering what delusions allow me to think that on any planet in the galaxy three weeks can be considered consistent. It's really more like 3 years. But let me explain..
In my work with the biggest signal sharing service over the past 5 years, I had many systems that were profitable most days for as many as 8 weeks--and then I would blow it by over-leveraging or not using the correct stop . . . especially when a politician was about to open his mouth. As mentioned previously, my best system earned me the number 42 spot out of almost 10,000 systems at the end of 2011. But then I dropped far.
Here is what my manual trading performance has consistently looked like for much of the past three years before I started my system on MQL5 three weeks ago. It was this performance that captured the attention of the great futures trader who then became my coach:
But then--each time--there was that one fatal flaw--my Achille's heel-- that destroyed many of my previous hard-earned pips, and trashed my stats. And when this happened, I would just quit in despair and start a new system.
So what is different now??? I think I have finally protected the Achille's heel, and I thank MQL5 for being a big part of the turnaround:
1. I now always honor my stop--no matter what. I have finally figured out that a few small losses are part of the game. What subscribers want is consistency. They are willing to put up with a few losers to get the big prize. I have been a foolish perfectionist. But now I am willing to drop my 90% win rate down to 80% or 70% in order to not "blow out" my account again--especially now that I have 195+ subscribers! It doesn't matter if I think the market is about to reverse in the biggest drop of the century. I can always reenter if I get stopped out. Psychologically, I have finally allowed myself to breathe and not be the "perfect" trader--since I know with the unknowable market the perfect trader is a statistical impossibility. This has lifted a great weight off of me. And the new epiphany here is that the freed-up mental space is now allowing me to see even better entries.
2. I keep my margin under control. I used to increase the size
of my position considerably when I "knew" what the market was going to
do next--even if I had promised myself not to do it. Now I keep those promises. I still get bit by the big dogs on trades, but now I don't lose my arm.
3. I am willing to get out "immediately" when a trade goes against me. I have had several break-even or small-loss trades. I don't wait for a trade to hit my stop loss if the sentiment has changed and the reason I got in the trade is no longer there. On that big signal site, the subscribers PAY BY THE TRADE whether profitable or not. And so to close out any trade at all with a loss "adds insult to injury" to subscribers. It was very hard on me to see subs lose this extra money, so I tended to wait until my stop got hit, hoping that it would turn around instead and finally become profitable. So MQL5 with the flat fee per month is a much better way. This has allowed me to trade properly and not have the psychological baggage of subscribers complaining about "churning for commission." Of course, a system of payments that completely aligns the interest of the subscriber and the provider by paying "only when profitable" would be the best method of all. Another one of the big signal sites does allow for this option, and many brokers now offer PAMM accounts too, which I considering-which would eliminate all slippage issues.
4. Emotional control on losses. Now when I have a loss I breathe and accept it.
I walk away from the screen. I never engage in "revenge" trading. I
humbly take my licks and try to learn what the market is trying to tell
me. I KNOW that there will be another setup soon.
5. My daily target is reasonable. I don't put the pressure on
myself to keep up with the best traders on MQL5. Many of the demo
account EA's are simply amazing! I am so impressed. And even though I
was recently bumped to #3 by subscriber count on "MT4 Real," I know that
low-risk consistency is more important than daily growth. I am
satisfied with 1% to 2% per day. I know that 1% per trading day
will turn each $100 into over $10,000 in 12 months. I will go for more
if I see the setups.
6. I am finally seeing the emotional side of price action. I used to try to catch "short" falling knives all the time looking for a bounce. And I used to always step in front of a "long" speeding locomotive looking for it to fly off the cliff. Now I know that waiting for the emotion to die down a bit before trying to catch the reversal is the only sane thing to do. One day I stared in awe at the profit chart of a highly successful system that only went long once the RSI reached 80 or short once it reached 20. CRAZY! . . . or so I had thought until that moment. I am much more careful now and generally wait for the move to demonstrate some weakness before being a daredevil and stupidly getting chopped up with short knives or obliterated by long trains.
7. I don't feel compelled to trade. I love trading. It it like
a good game of racquetball. I love hitting the ball so it is
impossible for my opponent to return it. But sometimes the market isn't
moving. One day last week I took ZERO trades--because I saw no decent set ups. Some subscribers complained; but I just smiled. This is a great step in the right direction for me.
8. Trading times. I am doing better about not trading all the time the market is open. Closing down my platform after the NY morning session allows my mind to rest. I have been doing more of this. And I have been trading less of the Asian open too. I can get other things done and done better because I am not thinking about my open trades all the time. I used to do a lot of swing trading and I see now how it consumed me. I have also now committed to not trade Friday afternoons because I have been stuck in draw downs too many times. I hate it when my fast trade becomes a swing trade, which is not what I want to be doing with this account. Of course the Sunday opening with possible gaps can be a killer too.
9. I am trading with fewer indicators. I think the clutter was fragmenting my brain. I am now going for simple.
I can actually trade without any indicators at all now, but I still
like my 50 sma and my simple MACD. I used to have 3x as many things on
my charts. (I also like to check the overall daily ATR to make sure I
am not buying at the high or selling at the low of the predicted range.)
10. I will not give up. One of the ironies is that I have been
searching for perfection in trading, instead of consistent gains. Many
of the most popular signal systems on signal following
sites had rocky starts. While my stats were much better than theirs, they kept going after a series of bad trades. They are now in the top 100 and I have started over--once again. The lesson is not lost on me.
Raptor, thanks for asking the question- forcing me to really think about consistency. "Three weeks" is truly laughable when trying to claim success, but it's actually more like 3 years of "mostly" consistent performance for me. Let's see if I can hang on and really reach my minimum target of 1% per day using the 10 principles listed above in my manual trading.
You are probably wondering what delusions allow me to think that on any planet in the galaxy three weeks can be considered consistent. It's really more like 3 years.