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Silly Question? How Broker Gets Benefits/Profits?

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Sherif Hasan
7293
Sherif Hasan  

This silly queston i have for long time not answered myself.

Broker gets benefit/profit when traders looses trades or win the trades?

Jozsef Bognar
617
Jozsef Bognar  
With commission, high spread, swap they can get profit.
kerso4
205
kerso4  
because they have commisions for trades, some differs in the  spread, other with a percetage of the money you trading with, depends on brokers.
Dr.Trader
3811
Dr.Trader  

ECN brokers get profit from your trade commissions, they don't care if you win or lose.

Other brokers get profit from your losses. And they lose money if you win.

In reality, most ECN brokers are cheating, and are working like normal brokers plus charge commission. They profit from commission, and from your losses. Also, more that 90% of trades only lose, and this is reason why being a broker is quite profitable.

Basically, brokers are your enemies, and they do everything for you to lose (high spread, slippages, etc). Its like a casino, where money and luck are everywhere, but in the end only winner is casino itself. If someone in casino starts to constantly win - he will be prohibited to enter there again. Same is with a lot of brokers - they will refuse to pay profits, and will block profitable accounts.

Alain Verleyen
Moderator
31185
Alain Verleyen  
Dr.Trader:

ECN brokers get profit from your trade commissions, they don't care if you win or lose.

Other brokers get profit from your losses. And they lose money if you win.

In reality, most ECN brokers are cheating, and are working like normal brokers plus charge commission. They profit from commission, and from your losses. Also, more that 90% of trades only lose, and this is reason why being a broker is quite profitable.

Basically, brokers are your enemies, and they do everything for you to lose (high spread, slippages, etc). Its like a casino, where money and luck are everywhere, but in the end only winner is casino itself. If someone in casino starts to constantly win - he will be prohibited to enter there again. Same is with a lot of brokers - they will refuse to pay profits, and will block profitable accounts.

I totally agree.

Do you know a (technical) way to recognize true ECN (or STP) brokers ?

Dr.Trader
3811
Dr.Trader  
Alain Verleyen:

Do you know a (technical) way to recognize true ECN (or STP) brokers ?

No, I don't think its technically easy to recognize it.

I have some guess though. Normal (dealing desk) brokers in most cases use some special software to alter tick flow to client, its done to bluff scalper advisors and force them to make mistakes and lose money. True ECN broker will not spend his money on such software and plugins, as they will never get their investment back, this type of things pays off only when broker wins from client losses. False ECN ones will definitely do it too.

I had couple of advisors which were working only on ECN brokers, and were horribly losing on a dealing desk ones. Spread and slippage were not an issue, problem was that they really did mistakes and wrong trades for no reason on dealing desk brokers.

Maybe some neural network can be trained to analyze tick flow from ecn and deadling desk brokers, it should be possible to detect false-ecn ones. That's probably only way.

Alain Verleyen
Moderator
31185
Alain Verleyen  
Dr.Trader:

No, I don't think its technically easy to recognize it.

I have some guess though. Normal (dealing desk) brokers in most cases use some special software to alter tick flow to client, its done to bluff scalper advisors and force them to make mistakes and lose money. True ECN broker will not spend his money on such software and plugins, as they will never get their investment back, this type of things pays off only when broker wins from client losses. False ECN ones will definitely do it too.

I had couple of advisors which were working only on ECN brokers, and were horribly losing on a dealing desk ones. Spread and slippage were not an issue, problem was that they really did mistakes and wrong trades for no reason on dealing desk brokers.

Maybe some neural network can be trained to analyze tick flow from ecn and deadling desk brokers, it should be possible to detect false-ecn ones. That's probably only way.

That seems interesting. Do you already have some ideas about the altered tick flow ?
Sherif Hasan
7293
Sherif Hasan  
Dr.Trader:

ECN brokers get profit from your trade commissions, they don't care if you win or lose.

Other brokers get profit from your losses. And they lose money if you win.

In reality, most ECN brokers are cheating, and are working like normal brokers plus charge commission. They profit from commission, and from your losses. Also, more that 90% of trades only lose, and this is reason why being a broker is quite profitable.

Basically, brokers are your enemies, and they do everything for you to lose (high spread, slippages, etc). Its like a casino, where money and luck are everywhere, but in the end only winner is casino itself. If someone in casino starts to constantly win - he will be prohibited to enter there again. Same is with a lot of brokers - they will refuse to pay profits, and will block profitable accounts.

Dr.Trader:

No, I don't think its technically easy to recognize it.

I have some guess though. Normal (dealing desk) brokers in most cases use some special software to alter tick flow to client, its done to bluff scalper advisors and force them to make mistakes and lose money. True ECN broker will not spend his money on such software and plugins, as they will never get their investment back, this type of things pays off only when broker wins from client losses. False ECN ones will definitely do it too.

I had couple of advisors which were working only on ECN brokers, and were horribly losing on a dealing desk ones. Spread and slippage were not an issue, problem was that they really did mistakes and wrong trades for no reason on dealing desk brokers.

Maybe some neural network can be trained to analyze tick flow from ecn and deadling desk brokers, it should be possible to detect false-ecn ones. That's probably only way.

This is what i expected to know.

Thank you Dr.Trader

How to get to know true ECN Brokers?

Waseem Raza
8216
Waseem Raza  

If you want to know about a broker ECN or not ,  

If a broker don't set Maximum  Deposit Limit   (a big fact that broker is ECN , NON ECN have limits because they know trader will win)

ECN broker don't set Stop Out Level tight    (Because its not broker business how much you loosing)

ECN Broker don't puts limits on STOP LOSS and Freeze levels ETC   

With ECN Broker STOP LOSS have no guarantee  as broker have no control on it Trade will stop at available price.

In Hedge ECN brokers gives you more freedom with no margin limits

In short a ECN Broker after taking trading fee they have no business with your profit and loss and they don't put limits on you they gives you freedom because when you will gain more broker will gain more. 

Else these facts there no other way to check broker is ECN OR NOT, The only way is you have grant and access to their computers and see inside their function.

Best 

Dr.Trader
3811
Dr.Trader  
Alain Verleyen:
That seems interesting. Do you already have some ideas about the altered tick flow ?

Not really. Probably some price spikes. Or lowered quotes which should trigger scalpers, but actually have higher slippage to match real quotes. I have seen a lot of topics about so called "mt4 virtual dealer plugin" which can be used to mess with scalpers and news traders, but I have no info how does it work.

Mohammad Soubra
27418
Mohammad Soubra  
Brokers winning always even if trader losedr
If you closed ur positions @ take profit they had gained the spread already
If you losed then they would gain the twice, the spread and your lost amount
They will never lose
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