I have been charged, where do I find out what for? - page 56

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Contender:

Naturally.

They are always in short supply.

Let's speak frankly. The programmer is least interested in the profitability of the finished product. He programs what he was asked to program. And it's not about experience. Even an experienced over-experienced person, can't know for sure before he executes it, whether or not the system will be profitable. They order something that works in manual mode. Or what the customer is at least a little bit sure about. The fact that the customer does not even know what an indicator is, although he ordered Expert Advisor on arrows (he does not even know what re-patterning is) means that the customer does not care. He has not even tried to trade using arrows in manual mode and understand how it all works. Who is to blame for this? Of course, here it depends on each individual programmer, what he will specify to order. But to test the customer at the moment of understanding what the cursor is - it's too much.

The same as a website developer. He does not care how much the customer earns - he performs the order. And he must strictly perform the task according to the received algorithm.

In this situation, as I said in the artist is not right, and the penalty should have been taken from him. But the performer i.e. Topikaster long time ago 4 times to get his 5 quid.

And the doer for the future got -1 point not in his favour. And the customer will not go back to him.

 
ot-kr:

In good conscience, the programmer also used the service. If the customer and the contractor are absolutely equal in legal terms, they must both pay for the use of the service.


The programmer pays for the work, gets 5% less than the stated amount, redoing the bugs in the terms of reference, moreover, tortures the customer to clarify, redo ambiguous points, and all this for free, provides psychological support.According to the labor code an employee can not be fined, he can not even be fired without benefits).
 
Vladon:

The same as a website developer. He does not care how much the customer earns - he fulfils the order. And he has to strictly execute the task according to the algorithm he received.


There was no algorithm.

If you compare it with websites, it's like a customer comes to you and says: "Here's a website, hosted at such and such. I need a similar one, hosting will be here so-and-so..."

You say, "No problem. 100$". Then you get into it, and his hoster can't do what the customer asked. You say, "Sorry, I can't (or can I? but for $400).

The customer says, "I'm not ready for $400".

As if that's OK, programmers are human too. But the client paid for this very "love" of a programmer, and nowhere in the rules was this turn of events specified. This was the subject of the original thread.

 
Contender:

There was no algorithm there.

If you compare it to websites, it's like a customer coming to you and saying, "Here's a website, hosted at so-and-so. I need a similar one, it's hosted here..."

You say, "No problem. 100$". Then you get into it, and his hoster can't do what the customer asked. You say, "Sorry, I can't (or can I? but for $400).

The customer says, "I'm not ready for $400".

As if that's OK, programmers are human too. But the client paid for this very "love" of a programmer, and nowhere in the rules was this turn of events specified. This was the subject of the original thread.

I know what this thread was about. :-) and I originally described my vision of the situation on pages 1-5.
 
zfs:
The programmer pays for the work, gets 5% less than the stated amount, redoing the bugs in the terms of reference, moreover, tortures the customer for clarification, redoing ambiguous points, and all this for free, provides psychological support.Under the labor code an employee cannot be fined, he cannot even be fired without a benefit).

Everything that you have listed is included in the price of the order and the contractor, if he wants to get the order, should do these steps as they are necessary.

The Labour Code has nothing to do with it. He cannot be fined or dismissed without benefit only on the one condition that he has performed his job well. No law obliges the employer to pay for what he did and did not do, but failed to do in the end.

 
Integer:
Are you trying to show off how cool you are too? Personal copywriter... personal pizza guy... what else is personal?

So stern... :)

Dim, I hear counting other people's shortcomings is a much more deadly sin. What's wrong with showing off in the mood? ;)

 
ot-kr:

Everything you have listed is included in the price of the order, the contractor must do these steps as they are necessary if he wishes to receive the order.

The Labour Code has nothing to do with it. He cannot be fined or dismissed without pay on the sole condition that he has done his job well. No law obliges the employer to pay for what the contractor did and did not do, but failed to do in the end.

When the client is new, you do not know what he has included in the order. Later you know and do not get involved. But you should read the code, though of course it doesn't matter here. Have you had many returns? Don't judge by yourself, people are different. When I talk to a client I always convey facts, but not everyone likes the truth. If I accidentally took the job of the customer, I would say sorry, but I can not do the job, you want to do something else, and he let me offended, and I'll pay for it 5 quid - I may be I also did not know that it is impossible, I just do not write programs immediately, and study the question, I read books, I stay up nights, I go to the toilet with textbook++, but here I did not know that the customer wrong terms of reference written, well, how to be?)
 
MetaDriver:

So stern... :)

Dim, I hear counting other people's faults is a much more mortal sin. And by the way, what's wrong with showing off in the mood? ;)

Yeah. Trolls on the Internet are like chicks on the street... Answer correctly and you'll look like the instigator.
 
Vladon:

Let's speak frankly. The programmer is least interested in the profitability of the final product. He programs what he was asked to program. And it's not about experience. Even an experienced person, above all, cannot know for sure before the execution - whether the system will bring profit. They order something that works in manual mode. Or what the customer is at least a little bit sure about. The fact that the customer does not even know what an indicator is, although he ordered Expert Advisor on arrows (he does not even know what re-patterning is) means that the customer does not care. He has not even tried to trade using arrows in manual mode and understand how it all works. Who is to blame for this? Of course, here it depends on each individual programmer, what he will specify to order. But to test the customer at the moment of understanding what a cursor is - it is too much.

I'm about to say a clever thing, but don't let anybody take offense :). A programmer, while specifying the ToR, should be guided not so much by the customer as by possible arbitration. Indeed, the requirement to pull every client to understand their own TOR would look unrealistic.

But programmers should definitely be required to inform clients that every word they say can be used against them :)


Integer:
Are you trying to show off how great you are too? Personal copywriter... personal pizza guy... what else is personal?
Why personal, there's plenty of freelancers
 
Candid:


But programmers should definitely be required to inform clients that every word they say can be used against them :)


How's that:?

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