Questions toTraders.. about trailing stop..
Hi everyone ..
How do you expierenced traders handle your trades where i am getting at is how do you handle your trailing stops . Any input would be great help to new traders..
EACANWhen the buy order flow dries up, i exit.
When the sell order flow dries up, i cover.
Know the flow of the markets and you won't need to use stops ever again.
When the buy order flow dries up, i exit.
When the sell order flow dries up, i cover.
Know the flow of the markets and you won't need to use stops ever again.Ok
But how do you decide if buy/sell flow dries up?
By volume? by indicator?
Would be very nice if you could give an explanation with a chart showing your point.
When the buy order flow dries up, i exit.
When the sell order flow dries up, i cover.
Know the flow of the markets and you won't need to use stops ever again.I completely dissagree with Scott. Trading without stops is the fastest way to loose your accounts.
Here is quoute from Robert Miner "If you ever have a trade position without an open protective stop-loss order in place with the broker, you are not a trader. You're an idiot."
This is a harsh statement and is not intended towards Scott by any means. But I have to say that I have nevere seen anyone who enjyed success trading without stops over longer period of time. Noone. So if Scott has a way to solve this problem for someone better be carefull listening to him.
As far as ottiginal question is concerned, I do not think that there is a single good answer how to apply the protective stops. It is all based on the individual strategy, trading plan, the success ratio of the system, MM, target objective, risk tollerence ant the list goes on and on.
I personally love tight protective stops because my trading strategies are based on trend reversal or trend continuation. Therefore, if the market proves that I am wrong I want to know as early as possible. So, ny stops are 15-20 pips from the entry point.
Fair of amount of back testing and forward testing will have to give you the idea what your protective stops should be
Hi Jane, I agree if you use lagging tools like moving averages, etc.
I use Drummond Geometry and it is rare that I don't have an objective observation about where a market is headed on any given timeframe. I've spent years learning how to read what the market tells me and thus I have no need to use hard stops. However, that doesn't mean I don't use stops at all - the flow is my stop. If the flow of the market is going against my trade, then I am out - simple as that.
If your trade goes against you, it means your analysis was wrong on the entry point. If you short a rally and it doesn't begin to fall immediately, I mean absolutely immediately (depending on your timeframe, I tend to use a 2-bar maximum window for this to happen) then you're out, period. When you can fade the crowd's moves, then you will be in the money. It is a huge psychological barrier to overcome that takes many hours of painful struggle and it's not something that can be taught on a forum, or by anyone other than yourself and your own trading experiences, for that matter.
It's not that I don't use stops but rather I use a different form of them than most others are capable of doing. I don't recommend that anyone do what I do until they've reached the point that I have in "reading the language of the markets."
Hope this helps.
Hi Jane, I agree if you use lagging tools like moving averages, etc.
I use Drummond Geometry and it is rare that I don't have an objective observation about where a market is headed on any given timeframe. I've spent years learning how to read what the market tells me and thus I have no need to use hard stops. However, that doesn't mean I don't use stops at all - the flow is my stop. If the flow of the market is going against my trade, then I am out - simple as that.
If your trade goes against you, it means your analysis was wrong on the entry point. If you short a rally and it doesn't begin to fall immediately, I mean absolutely immediately (depending on your timeframe, I tend to use a 2-bar maximum window for this to happen) then you're out, period. When you can fade the crowd's moves, then you will be in the money. It is a huge psychological barrier to overcome that takes many hours of painful struggle and it's not something that can be taught on a forum, or by anyone other than yourself and your own trading experiences, for that matter.
It's not that I don't use stops but rather I use a different form of them than most others are capable of doing. I don't recommend that anyone do what I do until they've reached the point that I have in "reading the language of the markets."
Hope this helps.I am currious if it has crossed your mind if something happens to you outside of your control after you enter the trade who would be paying for your loses? The fact of the matter is that the only factor before the trade within your control is your stop loss. If you are not using it it does not matter what you use Geometry, Trgonometry, Calculus or Psychology, you are playing against yourself, period. Robert Miner does not use lagging indicators as the key part of his system, neither do I. But trading without stops is not part of my trading method either
I am glad it is working for you. But I doubt it would work for many. Therefore, what is the point of discussing it if you cannot help others with your method?
Answer to post #4
Jane you think you disagree with Scott, but perhaps it's a misunderstanding only.
A stop means definetely to be prepared going out of trade and that's what Scott probably has in mind with his 'buy oder dry exit'.
The difference may be that you speak of automatic stops in the brokers order book and Scott speaks of adjustable stops in the trading strategy of an experienced trader.
Automatic stops in the brokers order book have got big disadvantages. Often you are hit by spikes, sometimes you even become a victim of stop hunting brokers and last but not least automatic stops are often triggered when no experienced trader would leave the market.
On the other hand as long as you lack the experience of serveral years of succsessful traiding you really would be an idiot to trade without stops, since unexperienced traiders usually can't resist to stick too long to loosing trades.
So both may by right. Never trade without protective stops and as long as you haven't got enough experience you even may use these stops to leave the market but keep in mind that there might be more profitable leaving points.
As I understand Scott he recommends not to waste time to develop the ultimate stop strategy but to concentrate on trading experience (starting please with $1 = 1 unit at Oanda as losses are inevitable in your first years) to get the right market feeling.
So I'm very curious about Scott's explanation how he decides if there is an order flow, if the flow has buy or sell direction and when this flow is drying up.
--------
When writing my answer to posting #4 you posted alredy postings #5 and #6
Please Scott could you explain a little bit more how your Drummond Geometry works and give the necessary links to try it in detail?
Answer to post #4
Jane you think you disagree with Scott, but perhaps it's a misunderstanding only.
A stop means definetely to be prepared going out of trade and that's what Scott probably has in mind with his 'buy oder dry exit'.
The difference may be that you speak of automatic stops in the brokers order book and Scott speaks of adjustable stops in the trading strategy of an experienced trader.
Automatic stops in the brokers order book have got big disadvantages. Often you are hit by spikes, sometimes you even become a victim of stop hunting brokers and last but not least automatic stops are often triggered when no experienced trader would leave the market.
On the other hand as long as you lack the experience of serveral years of succsessful traiding you really would be an idiot to trade without stops, since unexperienced traiders usually can't resist to stick too long to loosing trades.
So both may by right. Never trade without protective stops and as long as you haven't got enough experience you even may use these stops to leave the market but keep in mind that there might be more profitable leaving points.
As I understand Scott he recommends not to waste time to develop the ultimate stop strategy but to concentrate on trading experience (starting please with $1 = 1 unit at Oanda as losses are inevitable in your first years) to get the right market feeling.
So I'm very curious about Scott's explanation how he decides if there is an order flow, if the flow has buy or sell direction and when this flow is drying up.
--------
When writing my answer to posting #4 you posted alredy postings #5 and #6
Please Scott could you explain a little bit more how your Drummond Geometry works and give the necessary links to try it in detail?I have no affiliation with them whatsoever.
Jane, it's a public forum, if you don't like what I am saying then get over it or ignore me...
Guys it's really not difficult, you just have to be chart readers. It's not something that can be taught in a day or a week, it takes countless hours of time behind the screens to do this. I don't claim to be the master of it, and I'm not. But what I do claim is to trade a method that suits me and my personality, and I don't give a shiz what anyone else thinks of it! If it helps you, great, if it doesn't, great!
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Hi everyone ..
How do you expierenced traders handle your trades where i am getting at is how do you handle your trailing stops . Any input would be great help to new traders..
EACAN