Need a 'Stealthy' axillary 'Stop Loss' EA that will override the SL in other charts with an EA on them.
'override' ? will it change the SL once or multiple times ? how will it know that it's changed the SL ? What if the *original* EA also changes SL for trades it's put in place ?
You need to give a LOT more information before someone can even begin to scope it & put together a quote for you.
'override' ? will it change the SL once or multiple times ? how will it know that it's changed the SL ? What if the *original* EA also changes SL for trades it's put in place ?
You need to give a LOT more information before someone can even begin to scope it & put together a quote for you.
Hi brewmanz
The Trailing Stop Loss may change as it is supposed to, but not the secondary Stop Loss unless I change it just like any other Stop Loss. It's just a pip setting with the External Variables like in any other EA. I have no idea of how it overrides the Stop Loss setting in the primary EA.
But I do know that this is quite possible as I have a simple commercial EA that is a 2 stage Trailing Stop Loss that overrides the primary TSL in an existing EA or will put one onto an EA that doesn't have one. It just has an initial set point and then uses the second one once the first one is hit. It needs and allows for specifying which currency pair(s) it is supposed to control. It also allows for being used on other pairs that it doesn't have a specific currency pair listed in the EA but can work on which ever currency chart that it is attached to and set the External Variable that activates this feature.
I think that you may be making this more complicated than it is. All I want it to do is just allow me to set a Stop Loss point that overrides the Stop Loss in the primary EA. Nothing more unless you have something else in mind that may be also be beneficial to have in it.
'override' ? will it change the SL once or multiple times ? how will it know that it's changed the SL ? What if the *original* EA also changes SL for trades it's put in place ?
You need to give a LOT more information before someone can even begin to scope it & put together a quote for you.
One requirement it does have it that it needs to be 'Stealthy' in that it does not place the Stop Loss level on the Broker's server. It must monitor and follow the trades strictly within the EA and then close out any and all trades that hits the Stop Loss point in it.
One way forward would be to ..
1) have original EA use SL & TP that is (say) 100 or 1000 pips away from where you want it them.
2) you have another EA that loops for each order and checks if any SL or TP is closer than 100 or 1000 pips to price, and of so, then closes the order
Perhaps use GlobalVariable stuff to communicate the magic SL & TP differences to each other.
Hi Brewmanz,
Thanks for your replies. Sorry I did not reply earlier. This posting somehow was 'lost' for quite a while and neither I nor Rosh could find it or know why / how this was. Likewise, it is now mysteriously back. I'm glace, but am still scratching my head about this 'disappearing act'
I need this primarily for Commercial EAs that I don't have the source code for.
Regards,
DougRH
FourX:
needs to be 'Stealthy'
You are all putting too much of your efforts into fighting the imaginary hunt for your stops and other mythological things instead of concentrating your energy on finding and implementing a profitable trading strategy. You will stop losing money the very moment you realize this and stop spending your entire time with the defense against the illusions that are only induced by the trader's paranoia syndrome (TPS). You should try to fight the paranoia itself, this would instantly make you profitable!
Stealthy stop loss - sounds paranoid to me - This idea seems to want to address the idea that the broker is somehow cheating/adjusting the prices in order to close the order before it can make a profit.
I have seen one ea claim to tackel this problem/idea but myself I am uncertain as to the truth of this paranoia Any sugestions as to a good statistical approach or suggested articals appreciated.
Hi Ickyrus:,
Consider these:(1) The regulated Japanese stack market was a 'rigged insider trading' scheme that when exposed caused the JPY to drop ~ 2/3 when this was revealed to all a few years ago.
(2) Look at all of the questionable and unethical, if not downright illegal activities in the US in recent years in major investment houses, brokerages etc and investment banks and the SubPrime mortgage debacle and catastrophe which most of the top executives of these firms made fortunes off of there own clients when they were unsustainable &/or collapsed and then many of these same people made even more very significant amounts of money when they later got bailed out by the federal government and hence the (average) taxpayer that don't have anywhere near the kind of incomes that these charlestons swindled and cleaned up on the very people that subsequently 'bailed them out'. Again: in regulated markets.
(3) Many global ForEx brokerages are NOT regulated (at all). So who is watching over their shoulders making sure that they are not rigging the game, let alone that ones that are regulated.
(4) Almost everyone that has been into the ForEx markets for some time have (all) had systems that initially were (quite consistently and reliably) profitable: at first! But then after a while for no apparent or unknown reason, virtually all of these become unprofitable? Why? Are ALL of these strictly due to Random chance or ???
(5) Just as their are more and more 'self learning and adaptive' EAs that are supposed to learn and increase their accuracy the longer they trade; and taking into account some of the previously mentioned points, it would not surprise me at all if many and perhaps even most ForEx brokers are constantly doing the same with there software and continually rendering consistently profitable performing ForEx (EA) investment systems so that they are no longer profitable.
(6) In spite of the fact that most ForEx Brokerages response to such this is that they: 'Make there money on volumes of sales and not on who and how many traders are profitable so why would they cheat retail ForEx traders'? As recent changes in methods, standards, rules and regulations and laws that were amended in the US which also required them to inform all of their (retail) customers and that this is NOT the case in this market of very many smaller accounts as opposed to very large 'Institutional investors' and stated that us retail traders ARE in fact 'betting against and with the 'house' which in this case is the Brokerages that have a vested interest and benefits by retail traders losing money trading.
(7) There ARE numerous (commercial) EA's out now that are 'stealthy' and utilize not posting the TP, SL & even TSL to the brokerage's servers. I own several of them. The trades are all monitored and calculated strictly internally within the EA and then issue orders opening, closing, modifying and taking partial profits are taken strictly at levels internally controlled by the EA and not the levels set on the Broker's server, if they have any of these posted there at all. The downside of this is that if one becomes disconnected from your broker, then you have no SL in place to limit losses. Some address this by placing a high 'safety' bogus SL with the server as a contingency and a secondayr SL level that hey trade should close out at. The later is my preference.
(8) I have a number of (commercial) 'Stealthy' EA bots that do indeed utilize the above methods in (7) in attempts to 'keep the brokers honest' More and more of the newer commercial bots ARE in fact this way. To the extent that it is becoming the norm for new commercial bots to have these features. I dislike ones that do not allow one to directly set the actual TP, SL etc levels that they want. Many of these are strictly handled internally by the EA antilogarithm regardless of what one sets them to. My strong preference is to place a false and fairly large 'safety' stop loss on the broker's server, which in many cases is the minimum SL that they will allow. Then have a separate external variable for what the actual SL is going to be and inmost cases controls the actual exit caused by either the SL or the TP. These also have the advantage in that they can set a SL level lower than what the Broker would normally allow for that currency pair.
(9) I've started to more seriously and earnestly 'shop around' and am doing forward testing of exactly the same trading setups and conditions with different brokers. The differences in the results are in many cases quite dramatic and even alarming. However the broker testing that I am currently doing involves others factors in regards to the EAs that will produce inconsistent results depending on the broker. Thus I'm ONLY testing and looking for the most profitable ones with these SPECIFIC trading conditions, so these are NOT valid tests of the overall honesty, fair dealings and integrity of ForEx brokers.
But there is a technique by which one can place a series of trades with a broker and watch how the account and the margins etc respond and change and alter to these trades and changing conditions. This was developed by a man that set out to become a ''Brokerage' testing a rating service', but his resources and market conditions didn't allow him to make a commercial success out of it. Many traders that are very knowledgeable about the workings of the ForEx can likewise figure this out. His system and method for testing a ForEx brokers honesty and integrity ARE valid. Of the few that he did test, ONLY ONE brokerage showed that they were strictly honest and on the up and up and not tilting, skewing, tinkering and 'fixing' and adjusting the market in their own brokerage in their own favor and falsely taking profits that by right should of gone to traders!
Draw your own conclusions &/or do your own testing and research if you are inclined to. If you do, please share &/or publish it. If you do so, protect yourself from liability and be VERY certain that the playing field is an unbiased and fair setup for all ForEx brokers and is not skewed in favor of some over others because of it's design. Keep scrupulous and TOTALLY and COMPLETELY honest results and do not ''fudge' anything in the least'. Watch out for your own premature conclusions and favoring of certain brokers over others and (subconsciously) skewing and results that are not totally and completely unbiased and that they are ALL completely 100% accurate and true!
You are all putting too much of your efforts into fighting the imaginary hunt for your stops and other mythological things instead of concentrating your energy on finding and implementing a profitable trading strategy. You will stop losing money the very moment you realize this and stop spending your entire time with the defense against the illusions that are only induced by the trader's paranoia syndrome (TPS). You should try to fight the paranoia itself, this would instantly make you profitable!
7bit:
You are making assumptions and are only addressing one specific aspect that this particular topic touches on and jumping to a broad all encompassing conclusion based on a very narrow and limited view, insight, knowledge or awareness of myself and my focuses and orientation to ForEx trading which is as it is for most: multifaceted. This is just one small piece of this game. I am neither a paranoid conspiracy freak nor a naive, (self) delusional fool that blindly believes that their is nothing BUT 100% pure honest dealings with utmost integrity in this financial market and that the 'dealing desks' that by definition and what most of us trade through do in fact have the ready capability to control what we receive and trade with. If you naively believe that none of these brokerages EVER change or alter the conditions to stack it more in their favor, then I quite sincerely have to wonder about what the FACTS are that are the basis for your conclusions and the credibility of such statements and conclusions as you make.
So just what knowledge and facts are you basing your conclusions on that ALL or at least most retail brokers are 100% honest and ethical most if not 100% of the time and don't ever manipulate the market that we trade in and take positions against us retail traders? Most such brokers have dealing desks which in fact does control and readily has the ability to manipulate the market between their providers and us small retail traders. It's very doubtful that most here have any direct access to InterBank ForEx markets, trading and quotes and are trading strictly in non-dealing desks in that un-manipulated trading environment.
What are you basing your statements on? Lack of concrete information and knowledge on what you speak of, wish fulfillment, naivete, blind faith and inherent belief in the absolute integrity of all people and business organizations, including those that are setup specifically to make money off of people like us here. They are their to make money for themselves and NOT us!
Check out this segment on (retail) ForEx brokers. Before you summarily dismiss what is presented there and just ignore him as being just another paranoid fool and idiot like me, check out and
take a look at this guys knowledge, experience, background, credentials and credibility in the (retail)
ForEx markets. Then present the basis and facts for your conclusions stacked beside Mark Larsen's and lets see who has the experience, knowledge and solid basis to back up their statements and let's see just what really is what in this matter?
He also operates an unbiased EA review site that he has no vested interest in the EAs that he reviews and provides data, information and performance on. He is not a vendor nor an affiliate of these automated trading systems that he and his EA lab test and document.
There IS now one exception to this: Out of his considerable experience in both the ForEx and MT4 EAs, he had an EA programed with his own successful trading system and algorithm. I own it and dozens, if not hundreds of other EAs: mostly commercial ones. But also free ones and others that I participated and collaborated considerably in EA developments that people from here that were making there own EAs. Some for limited personal usage and others that were aiming for large scale commercialization. Something that is VERY hard to succeed at. Likely more so than actually producing solid, robust EAs that are profitable over very long periods of time. As well as some of my own very rudimentary EAs as I am not to date anywhere near a competent and capable (MQL) programmer by a very long stretch and don't claim to be one. Mark Larsen's EA, which he also publishes unbiased reviews of, is the ONLY EA that I have or have ever had that is consistently and reliably profitable. This includes trading it in non-ECN brokerage environments with dealing desks.
Lets see your similar data, facts, break down and analysis of your own profitable EAs operating in dealing desk environments. Or for that matter, ANY EAs that fit this criteria. Be they from here, commercial or free EAs. As we all know, these ARE VERY rare indeed. This IS a very hard market to be consistently successful and profitable in, and the retail brokers that we utilize are NOT working towards our profitability, but there own.
How do you explain the hundreds and more likely (tens of) thousands of successful and profitable trading robots that just peter out and stop being profitable after a period of time for no discernible reason? Is it because none of us are sharp enough and intelligent enough to EVER make any profitable EAs? We both know that there are some VERY sharp, intelligent, competent MQL programmers in these MQ websites. Many that are also very savvy and knowledgeable about and with the ForEx market as well. Yet where are all the robust, solid LONG TERM consistently profitable EAs? How may times have you heard about a profitable system that for no apparent reason just stopped being profitable? WHY is this the case? What IS the explanation for these? Sure the dynamics of the ForEx change. It is always changing. But there are only so many possible permutation, combination and patterns, even though their ARE a LOT of these! But it is STILL the same 'ForEx currency market' that it has been for decades. The basic operating principles remain unchanged. So why do profitable EAs that have 'seen the light of Day' now only dwell in darkness, gloom and doom of being losers NOW if traded with when they were profitable years ago. For the most part, there is no other logical reason for them not to STILL be profitable other than the fact that the dealers have likewise altered there Dealing Desk programs to render these as no longer being profitable. Believe me, if you have a solid, realistic answer for this: I and probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of others would like to know the TRUE answer to this.
Did you actually read the statement that the new US laws and regulation on US ForEx dealers that forced them to reveal that in fact they do and ARE taking positions against us and are NOT the unbiased and neutral participants that they all claim to be as they 'want us to be successful and profit' as this is the only way that hey make their profits: strictly based on one specific and unvarying algorithm in ALL market conditions. This disclosure clearly states and illustrates that this most definitely is NOT the case.
I am currently forward testing some EAs on numerous different brokers and the difference in the results vary widely from consistent losers that will repeatedly drain accounts dry to some that just constantly break even and then there are some that are consistently building up the accounts. How do you explain these considerable and substantial variations in results when they are all from the very 'SAME' and supposedly 'homogeneous' ForEx market? My paranoia?
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The subject pretty well says it: I need an EA that I can attach to another chart that will override the SL in the same currency pair on another chart with the initial EA in it. It needs to be able to be used with any/all currency pairs.
The SL in the Second EA will override the first fully functional and comprehensive EA's Stop Loss.
It needs to be 'Stealthy' in that it does not place the Stop Loss on the broker's server, but monitors the trades and then closes out the trade when it this Stealthy Stop Loss.
Thanks for any and all assistance.