Signal offer - block a specific country from subscription

[Benjamin Greulich]

Hi all, 

to offer a mql5 signal to german customers, it seems, you need a permission from the german finance police ("BaFin"). If you don't have such a permission, anybody in germany can sue you. 

Is here someone who knows a contact possibility to mql5.com where I can ask for such a function? So that I could block german subscribers from my signals?

Thanks for some hint

[Eleni Anna Branou]

Benjamin Greulich:

Hi all, 

to offer a mql5 signal to german customers, it seems, you need a permission from the german finance police ("BaFin"). If you don't have such a permission, anybody in germany can sue you. 

Is here someone who knows a contact possibility to mql5.com where I can ask for such a function? So that I could block german subscribers from my signals?

Thanks for some hint

There is no option within MQL5.com signal system that allows you to avoid specific subscribers.

You can warn German potential subscribers against it in your signal's description I guess.

[Benjamin Greulich]

Eleni Anna Branou:

There is no option within MQL5.com signal system that allows you to avoid specific subscribers.

You can warn German potential subscribers against it in your signal's description I guess.

thanks for your answer, but a warning is no solution. I think for mql5.com such a function is no big deal to implement

[Fernando Carreiro]

Benjamin Greulich: thanks for your answer, but a warning is no solution. I think for mql5.com such a function is no big deal to implement

MetaQuotes is in Cyprus and does not fall under German financial jurisdiction. Your signal is published via MetaQuotes, so is not considered a German service, even if you are physically in Germany, your trade signal is not. Not even your broker is in Germany.

You are supplying the service to Metaquotes on consignment, and they are the ones "selling" the subscription to their customers (they are not your customers). You may be supplying support to those customers, but technically they are MetaQuotes customers and it is MetaQuotes that is offering the signal, not you!

[Benjamin Greulich]

Fernando Carreiro:

MetaQuotes is in Cyprus and does not fall under German financial jurisdiction. Your signal is published via MetaQuotes, so is not considered a German service, even if you are physically in Germany, your trade signal is not. Not even your broker is in Germany.

You are supplying the service to Metaquotes on consignment, and they are the ones "selling" the subscription to their customers (they are not your customers). You may be supplying support to those customers, but technically they are MetaQuotes customers and it is MetaQuotes that is offering the signal, not you!

Hi, thanks for your answer, but it is unfortunately not true what you mentioned, cus the offer is also for german customers and that is everything what counts for our financial police. Here is a recent article, it is in german, but you can see, it is against a company from the marshall islands:  https://www.bafin.de/dok/16429318

[Fernando Carreiro]

Benjamin Greulich:Hi, thanks for your answer, but it is unfortunately not true what you mentioned, cus the offer is also for german customers and that is everything what counts for our financial police. Here is a recent article, it is in german, but you can see, it is against a company from the marshall islands:  https://www.bafin.de/dok/16429318

That has nothing to do with this case. It is about portfolio management by a financial company managing their customers' portfolios. It has nothing to do with signals. You are not managing anyone's portfolio. You are simply trading your own account and users can decide for themselves if they wish to follow you or not. They are managing their own accounts. Not you!

You are getting flustered about things that have nothing to do with the issue.

[Eleni Anna Branou]

Fernando Carreiro:

That has nothing to do with this case. It is about portfolio management by a financial company managing their customers portfolios. It ha nothing to do with signals. You are not managing anyone's portfolio. You are simply trading your own account and users can decide for themselves if they wish to follow you or not. They are managing their own accounts. Not you!

You are getting flustered about things that have nothing to do with the issue.

I believe Fernando is perfectly right.

[Benjamin Greulich]

Fernando Carreiro:

That has nothing to do with this case. It is about portfolio management by a financial company managing their customers' portfolios. It has nothing to do with signals. You are not managing anyone's portfolio. You are simply trading your own account and users can decide for themselves if they wish to follow you or not. They are managing their own accounts. Not you!

You are getting flustered about things that have nothing to do with the issue.

We already asked the BaFin and they responded, that a german needs a permission (it is hard to get one) to offer his mql5 signal in public. The reason is in the terms and conditions for the mql5-signals, it is a kind of account management. I know a lot of german guys who have their (very good) signals in private cus of this. It is common sense that we can get troubles. Would be great to have a function to block germans from subscription.

[Fernando Carreiro]

Benjamin Greulich: We already asked the BaFin and they responded, that a german needs a permission (it is hard to get one) to offer his mql5 signal in public. The reason is in the terms and conditions for the mql5-signals, it is a kind of account management. I know a lot of german guys who have their (very good) signals in private cus of this. It is common sense that we can get troubles. Would be great to have a function to block germans from subscription.

I suggest you read BinFin information again as you are mixing apples and oranges!

Ref: BaFin - Platform for signalling and automated order execution

Activity of the signal providers (traders)

Signal providers disclose their own securities accounts and execute trading decisions and securities orders publicly. This does not, in principle, constitute any business activity subject to an authorisation requirement pursuant to the  KWG . ...

... If the signal providers are therefore not simply pursing the activity as a hobby, this criterion can be fulfilled.  ...

[Benjamin Greulich]

Fernando Carreiro:

I suggest you read BinFin information again as you are mixing apples and oranges!

Ref: BaFin - Platform for signalling and automated order execution

Activity of the signal providers (traders)

Signal providers disclose their own securities accounts and execute trading decisions and securities orders publicly. This does not, in principle, constitute any business activity subject to an authorisation requirement pursuant to the  KWG .

... If the signal providers are therefore not simply pursing the activity as a hobby, this criterion can be fulfilled.  ...

Sorry, I know this article and you copy two parts without adding the exceptions. For the first one there are two exceptions: 1. contains – either directly or indirectly – a recommendation for a particular investment decision and

2. is intended to be made available to an unspecified group of individuals

... and for your second part regarding hobby or profession there is this:

...which means that, from that date onwards, financial analysis can also be deemed to exist if the signal provider is not acting within the scope of their "profession or business activities.

And I have a screenshot from an email in german from a BaFin guy who give the Information that you need a permission when you offer your trading on Mql5.com as a german 

[Fernando Carreiro]

Benjamin Greulich:
Sorry, I know this article and you copy two parts without adding the exceptions. For the first one there are two exceptions: 1. contains – either directly or indirectly – a recommendation for a particular investment decision and

2. is intended to be made available to an unspecified group of individuals

... and for your second part regarding hobby or profession there is this:

...which means that, from that date onwards, financial analysis can also be deemed to exist if the signal provider is not acting within the scope of their "profession or business activities.

And I have a screenshot from an email in german from a BaFin guy who give the Information that you need a permission when you offer your trading on Mql5.com as a german 

Are you registered as a professional trader and financial analyst? Is that your primary business activity?

No, obviously you are not and therefore you are a retail or hobby trader. You do this as a side job, because obviously like most, you have another job from which you receive most of your regular income and pay your normal taxes.

Only institutions or people you have registered as doing this for a primary profession connected to financial services are the ones that requires special permission. Not you!

I am sure that the email you have has to be read in the context of such business activities and not about hobby traders.

I am sure you are making a mountain out of a mole hill about this!

EDIT: Well, it really is not my concern. You obviously believe that those rules apply to you, so just go about as you wish. MetaQuotes is definitely not going to make those changes at all, because they obviously do not fall under German jurisdiction and they are only obliged to follow Cypriot regulation.