What you need to know about scalping? - MQL4 and MetaTrader 4

[Deleted] 2009.05.22 15:06 #11

cloudbreaker wrote >>

Well I can categorically state that Seawolf and Ruptor are talking out of their collective rear end.

For an OP_BUY order, you are absolutely correct to use the Ask price to generate your entry price and stops.

Actually, Seawolf and Ruptor are correct.

You enter a long order at the ASK price and you exit at the BID, reverse that for a sell order. Since a stop-loss or take-profit is an exit you need to use the BID price to calculate them on a long order.

This is a fairly common point of confusion that is often overlooked, especially when dealing with small spreads since there's not much difference between the ASK and BID price. Sometimes the code will work just fine if your stops and slippage are not to tight, but if you're scalping or doing anything else that requires precision then you need to use these guidelines for proper price on entry and exit.

-

For a long order, i.e. OP_BUY, OP_BUYSTOP, or OP_BUYLIMIT:

Entry Price = ASK

Exit Price (stop-loss, take-profit, or OrderClose(...) ) = BID

-

For a short order, i.e. OP_SELL, OP_SELLSTOP, or OP_SELLLIMIT:

Entry Price = BID

Exit Price (stop-loss, take-profit, or OrderClose(...) ) = ASK

-

Tovan

Open/Close positons at price Help with OrderSend MODE_SPREAD

[Deleted] 2009.05.22 18:32 #12

tovan:

Actually, Seawolf and Ruptor are correct.

You enter a long order at the ASK price and you exit at the BID, reverse that for a sell order. Since a stop-loss or take-profit is an exit you need to use the BID price to calculate them on a long order.

This is a fairly common point of confusion that is often overlooked, especially when dealing with small spreads since there's not much difference between the ASK and BID price. Sometimes the code will work just fine if your stops and slippage are not to tight, but if you're scalping or doing anything else that requires precision then you need to use these guidelines for proper price on entry and exit.

-

For a long order, i.e. OP_BUY, OP_BUYSTOP, or OP_BUYLIMIT:

Entry Price = ASK

Exit Price (stop-loss, take-profit, or OrderClose(...) ) = BID

-

For a short order, i.e. OP_SELL, OP_SELLSTOP, or OP_SELLLIMIT:

Entry Price = BID

Exit Price (stop-loss, take-profit, or OrderClose(...) ) = ASK

-

Tovan

Understood, I see exactly what you are saying - and humblest apologies to Seawolf and Ruptor.

Where I close orders normally or operate my own stealth stoploss (which just invokes my normal close orders function), I'm fully aware to use Bid for OP_BUYs and Ask for OP_SELLs.

However, when opening my orders, I've always just used the entry prices as my baseline to calculate the stoploss and never have had any problem. I can see how the combination of a loose spread and tight stop could cause an invalid stops error.

I'd add that there are a hell of a lot of samples which do it the same way I do.

If we don't have tight stops, I guess the only difference between the two techniques that most of us will tend to experience is in the actual money made or lost, although since both types of order would get stopped 'the spread amount sooner', they would tend to cancel each other out if the spread were fairly stable.

Is this logic sound?

MODE_SPREAD unable to use expert What does broker know?

[Deleted] 2009.05.22 19:59 #13

cloudbreaker wrote >>

Understood, I see exactly what you are saying - and humblest apologies to Seawolf and Ruptor.

Where I close orders normally or operate my own stealth stoploss (which just invokes my normal close orders function), I'm fully aware to use Bid for OP_BUYs and Ask for OP_SELLs.

However, when opening my orders, I've always just used the entry prices as my baseline to calculate the stoploss and never have had any problem. I can see how the combination of a loose spread and tight stop could cause an invalid stops error.

I'd add that there are a hell of a lot of samples which do it the same way I do.

If we don't have tight stops, I guess the only difference between the two techniques that most of us will tend to experience is in the actual money made or lost, although since both types of order would get stopped 'the spread amount sooner', they would tend to cancel each other out if the spread were fairly stable.

Is this logic sound?

Good points. I agree that there are many other EA's out there that do it the way you suggested.

This illustrates some differing views that we take on stop-loss based on how our EA's work. I, for instance, tend to set my stop-loss fairly tight. So I'm generally more concerned with where the order is going to fail than with how much I would loose if it does. On the other hand, though, if you were more interested in what you would loose (or gain) when the order closes then it makes sense to do all of the calculations on the opening price as opposed to the close price. That only becomes a problem if your stop-loss or take profit is tight (within a few pips, depending on the pair). In that case the EA would need to do some extra checking with MODE_STOPLEVEL (as you suggested above) to make sure you can actually complete the transaction.

I was talking mostly from a purist position, but I can see some valid arguments for running it both ways.

- Tovan

[WARNING CLOSED!] Any newbie Trade manager EA manage Help with OrderSend

Rudolph Brits 2009.05.25 06:29 #14

tovan:

Good points. I agree that there are many other EA's out there that do it the way you suggested.

This illustrates some differing views that we take on stop-loss based on how our EA's work. I, for instance, tend to set my stop-loss fairly tight. So I'm generally more concerned with where the order is going to fail than with how much I would loose if it does. On the other hand, though, if you were more interested in what you would loose (or gain) when the order closes then it makes sense to do all of the calculations on the opening price as opposed to the close price. That only becomes a problem if your stop-loss or take profit is tight (within a few pips, depending on the pair). In that case the EA would need to do some extra checking with MODE_STOPLEVEL (as you suggested above) to make sure you can actually complete the transaction.

I was talking mostly from a purist position, but I can see some valid arguments for running it both ways.

- Tovan

Tovan is this than correct because i also get a 130 error

if(OrderType()==OP_SELL && OrderSymbol()==Symbol())
{
if (OrderStopLoss()==0)
{
OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),Ask+Point*TrailingStop,OrderTakeProfit(),0,Red);
}
if((OrderOpenPrice()-Ask)>(Point*TrailingStop))
{
if(OrderStopLoss()>(Ask+Point*TrailingStop)+Point)
{
if(!OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),Ask+Point*TrailingStop,OrderTakeProfit(),0,Red))
Print("Error_Modify - ",GetLastError());
else str=StringConcatenate("\n My ticket number is ", OrderTicket(), " and my stop loss setting is ", DoubleToStr(Ask+Point*TrailingStop,Digits)); // new code
}
}
}
if(OrderType()==OP_BUY && OrderSymbol()==Symbol())
{
if (OrderStopLoss()==0)
{
OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),Bid-Point*TrailingStop,OrderTakeProfit(),0,Green);
}

if(Bid-OrderOpenPrice()>Point*TrailingStop)
{
if(OrderStopLoss()<Bid-Point*TrailingStop-Point)
{
if(!OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),Bid-Point*TrailingStop,OrderTakeProfit(),0,Green))
Print("Error_Modify - ",GetLastError());
else str=StringConcatenate("\n My ticket number is ", OrderTicket(), " and my stop loss setting is ", DoubleToStr(Bid-Point*TrailingStop,Digits)); // new code
}

}

is the 130 error to do with the entry and exit - or could it be because of slippage

OrderModify Error 130 Requests & Ideas, the need some help with

[Deleted] 2009.05.25 11:16 #15

Actually, it seems all of you are a bit confused. Some of you are mixing up two totally different things.

The questions to ask are:

1) At what price do Buy and Sell TP and SL orders get executed. Bid or Ask?

2) What price do we use to calculate TP and SL for Buy and Sell. Bid or Ask?

tovan wrote >>

Actually, Seawolf and Ruptor are correct.

You enter a long order at the ASK price and you exit at the BID, reverse that for a sell order.

//---VANGROSH --- Correct but confusing. Better to say your Long order TP or SL will be executed when your TP Price or SL Price == the BID price. This is what you SEE when you watch your order hit TP or SL, but this has nothing to do with how you calculate those prices.

Since a stop-loss or take-profit is an exit you need to use the BID price to calculate them on a long order.

//---VANGROSH--- Sorry that’s wrong. You’re confusing what you SEE- What price will trigger the exit, with what price you use to calculate the TP and SL Prices.

Just think this through a bit. Take a Buy Order. You all agree we Buy at the ASK price- no issue. Let’s say TP is 15 points on a Buy order, and the spread is 5 points. If you set the TP 15 points above the BID price then your TP will only be 10 points because the spread is BELOW the ASK and ABOVE the BID price. It makes no sense to calculate 15 points of TP from a price 5 points BELOW your entry price (ASK). You must always calculate the TP or SL from the price you entered the order at. ASK for BUY, BID for SELL.

It’s easy if you just think at what price your TP or SL will be hit. On a BUY order, entering with ASK price, at what price will your TP get hit? At the BID price. If your TP was at 1.2450 and you set your TP from the ASK price, then when the ASK line is at 1.2450 now your are just starting to pay the spread. Only when the BID line is at 1.2450 will your TP get hit and your order will close with 15 points of profit.

Same with the SL. If your SL is 30 points that means 30 points from the entry price. On Buy the entry price is ASK. If you use the BID price – 30 points, then you are excluding the spread in your SL so your real SL will actually be 35 points from your entry (ASK) price because the BID price is 5 points lower (the spread) then the ASK price. You will get 35 points of SL because your SL PRICE is now 35 points below your ENTRY PRICE which was what for a Buy Order?

I’ve only been doing this for a few months and what helped me was just observing at what price TP and SL get hit when manually trading and then for my first EA, I just double checked my TP and SL lines on an opened EA order using the crosshair tool and also checked the TP and SL prices on some closed EA orders to be sure the TP and SL points were exact.

The only time you need to do different is for a trailing stop. For a Buy order you use the BID price.

if(Bid-OrderOpenPrice() > Point*_trailingStop) StopLoss = Bid-Point*_trailingStop;

Because you want your TS to be X points below the price that will close the order if hit which is the BID price.

For sell you use ASK.

if(OrderOpenPrice()-Ask > Point*_trailingStop) StopLoss = Ask+Point*_trailingStop;

Because you want your TS to be X points above the price that will close the order if hit which is the ASK price.

Remember it is the BID price that will close your BUY TP and SL orders,

And it is the ASK price that will close your SELL TP and SL orders.

How to set correct Calculate TP for ECN Stoploss points are higher

Rudolph Brits 2009.05.25 12:39 #16

vangrosh: