Critique of MetaTrader 5 on the FORTS
Quote:
"Renat:The other day I restored my old working account in Otkritie from 2004, closed a longstanding Sberbank position in the plus, and then connected a MetaTrader 5 account. Working in MetaTrader 5 cannot be compared with QuickBooks - you just can't. In the 9 years that I've been occasionally watching and updating Quick, it hasn't gotten one iota out of the hammock where it waits for visitors, tempting them to have sex in a spacesuit and flippers. Trading in MT5 is easy, everything is at your fingertips, trading from charts, one click and from the cup. Although the glass is still uncomfortable, but in a fortnight we will have a normal high-speed scalper glass in the next build. We will also significantly upgrade trading with charts. Who wanted to trade on regulated markets, try it yourself.
Came to a futures market that has 4 expiry times a year and didn't do the elementary feature of changing the instrument on a particular chart? When I trade RTS Index futures alone, I use 7 charts arranged in a specific way on the screen! I have to close all the charts and set up my workspace again using templates every time I expire. I have to spend an hour to arrange all the windows in the right sequence, with the right size windows. And I know people who have 20 charts each! Where's the logic in that? This is not eternal currency pairs on FOREX!
And your lopsided grid and scaling scales? This is terrible! Instead of the standard convenient levels: 102000, 102100, 102200, 102300, etc., we see similar shit: 100550, 100910, 101270, 101630, etc. And all this crap is constantly changing to a new non-standard interval. Try to determine the price level "by eye" on a horizontal grid... your eye will break ))). And the vertical grid is just as miserable! The horizontal grid is 120 points, the vertical one - 8 minutes! Where else will you see it? The developers do not understand what the brain is doing when it is able to recognize graphic models! How should the brain be able to recognize repetitive graphical models if the coordinate system is constantly jumping!? Why should it measure the delta? In principle, in setting up a graph, there are some possibilities for manipulating the scale and fixing it, but they cannot fix the situation! The facts are that the charts in MetaTrader 5 are bullshit! Look at the same Quick - everything is done clearly! But why do I have to sign the date on each vertical line? It's already clear what day it is, but you can't see the time because of the date! I've seen the coolest markup on SmartTrade (broker I.T. Invest) charts - marking the ranges! I have never seen anything better than SmartTrade's charts. This is important, when the chart grid is static, then the brain has a constant reference point and identifying systematic processes is much easier. Finding patterns, inefficiencies, patterns - on a static grid, it's easy, fast and effective! For the brain to "catch" formations - you need a static coordinate system. In MetaTrader 5, the chart grid not only constantly jumps, it also takes different values of the step, a multiple of which - does not fit any standards.
And the lack of ribbon? I've read your comments saying that it will not be available, because only some people will need it and it will affect the servers. You do not understand who trades on the FORTS! This is the futures market, the next step in the career of a trader! They are green beginners in forex and stocks - they do not understand anything about trading! Many of them don't even know the tape exists! You can sell them anything! But not for those who are a step above in development! We can't sell it! After all, the flow of transactions (cache-flow) and the flow of orders (order-flow) determine the behavior of prices! Not indicators, not stochastics with bollinger lines, but the deal flow moves the price! And not a single intelligent trader will reject the fundamental thing in trading - the deal flow! And this flow is in Quick and we will never exchange it for your MetaTrader 5. Are you afraid of server load? Qoovikers are afraid of it too! That's why every Quickswitch login has the tick chart and all trades table (feed) disabled by default. But if you call the broker and ask to turn it on, the broker will turn on these streams for the particular user! It is this mechanism that allows you to reduce the load on the servers! What prevents you from doing the same - I do not know!
When trading on the FORTS, one of the fundamental parameters is the dynamics of Open Interest (OI)! And in Quick, you can output the graphs and use them to control the dynamics of buying or selling positions! MetaTrader has only one oscillating minute value in the charts. What kind of trading could we be talking about? Indicators? Indicators are a direct consequence of the illiteracy of beginners! And on the FORTS the guys are a little smarter! How can you come to the FORTS market and not make a chart for OM? This is not futures, this is futures and options!
And the depth of the market you have is 20x20! The broker OPEN on the Quick - the depth of the market is 50x50! Honestly, why should I, ditch Quick and go to worse terms? I'll just see even less! It's stupid to go from better to worse! Developers, come to your senses! These people are not stupid! And any adequate trader will not change their trading platform for less functionality. Besides QuickBooks there are other terminals. Why will Aichiinvest client turn down his broker with SmartX and SmartTrade to switch to MetaTrader 5 and go to OTKTTIE or BKS? AITInvest's terminals have an order of magnitude more functionality than MetaTrader 5. They also have a deep stack, OI, table of all trades, etc. What sane trader would do that? Why would a client of Alor+ broker abandon his Alor-Trade terminal and change broker? Why would they do that? MetaTrader5 terminal has only two brokers, OTKRYTIE and BKS, and they have a limited number of clients and most of them will not support you! Yes, the representative of OTKRYTIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2rHjmR4Gj0 said that 1800 clients used the terminal, but it doesn't mean that they stayed and will stay to trade with them! I plugged it in, had a look, didn't like it and gave up. After half a year they cut me off! Then I reconnected, looked again - zero change and abandoned again! Since I don't have to pay membership fee for it I use MetaTrader as a standby terminal in case of server failure on Quicksilver to close position opening. I have not traded via MetaTrader and will not until they reach the same level of functionality as QuickBooks. As for the clients, you will hit the ceiling anyway because you will not succeed in attracting newcomers to the pcoa - newcomers want stocks, and you don't have them yet, and newcomers will use the Quick. I hope that the developers will come to their senses and start listening to customers, rather than their own preconceptions!
There are a couple of articles on this subject:
http://tradetrade.ru/programmi/2014/03/27/metatrader-5-za-i-protiv.html
http://tradetrade.ru/programmi/2014/05/05/epicheskiy-batl-qscalp-vs-easyscalp-quik-vs-metatrader-5-plaza-2-vs-polu-plaza-lenta-beritca-vs-polu-lenta-atas-footprint-vs-smart-footprint-matching-forts.html
I agree, and you have such a well-argued argument, I feel like a trader and not a programmer, like most of us here
I have a problem now, the terminal does not allow to open more than 100 charts at a time, not to mention their location
Not for manual trading MT
Yes, MetaTrader 5 is faster than Quick:
- the chart is on average 300ms faster than the Quicksilver chart;
- the charts are also faster by about a second;
- MetaTrader's server handles stop orders much faster than Kvik's servers.
But that's not a reason to switch from Quickswitch to less functional MetaTrader 5!
I'm surprised that you find such huge advantages on the face of it unimportant.
It's not just a reason, but a mega reason in addition to a lot of other advantages.
What were you thinking when you entered the futures market, which expires 4 times a year and you didn't have a basic function to change the instrument on a specific chart? When I trade only futures on RTS Index, I use 7 charts, located in a certain way on the screen! I have to close all the charts and set up my workspace again using templates every time I expire. I have to spend an hour to arrange all the windows in the right sequence, with the right size windows. And I know people who have 20 charts each! Where's the logic in that? This is not eternal currency pairs on FOREX!
Didn't quite catch the idea about "changing the instrument on the chart", but I can guess:
- changing a symbol on a chart is done in several ways: drag'n'drop with a symbol from the market overview, Enter + typing a symbol name, dragging from the history of trades or open positions to the chart
- If we're talking about binding of futures history, then it's done by the broker on the server.
Templates are easy to set, save and switch easily, too. Just use this function.
There will be a feed of trades, they've already written about it. There's no need to write so fiercely, and even with outright insults.
Depth of the glass is set by the broker. Right now the available depth is 32 + 32 (64 levels), if that's not enough for the broker, he can easily ask to expand it.
You know very well that you can not believe in the reliability of 50 x 50 glass data in principle, especially on low liquid markets, like MOEX. You just put up a figure of 50 for comparison, so that you can link 90% of the text that follows.
I recommend to look deeper into the functionality and to try it, rather than to make hops, stopping at what is familiar. Try automation, scalping, asynchronous execution and a bunch of other features. It's a whole other level of work.
I agree, and you have such a well-reasoned argument, you feel like a trader rather than a programmer, which is the majority here
Unfortunately, the argumentation is based on ignorance of the functionality.
But more importantly, the approach at the level of "I dismantle the carburetor in my garage, and where is it? How does it go without a carburetor? I see that the car goes faster, but the new buttons do not interest me. do not offer an automatic, I'm used to the stick.
Unfortunately, the reasoning is based on ignorance of the functionality.
More importantly, the approach at the level of "I disassemble the carburettor in my garage, where is it? How can a car drive without a carburettor? I see that it goes much faster, but the new buttons don't interest me. Don't suggest automatic, I'm used to drive by stick".
You are probably right about knowing the functionality
But about scaling it is not a trifle, of course I have a twisted and always have the same zoomed in chart on my terminal, and I consider the zoom in and zoom out buttons as special plum buttons
Most schools of chart analysis are built on scale stability, they don't mention that, they just couldn't assume that people would try to look at charts through rescaling mirror curves, bots probably don't give a shit, they look at indicators, but indicators are past by definition and the chance of a recurrence is greatly exaggerated
Only the price is real in the present time, waves with no huddle, sloping on the scale
The situation with the scale is like wearing glasses with different dioptres put on randomly, besides there is no probability to look twice through the same glasses to get used to it ...
I was nosy about statistics in a neighboring thread but the statistics for MT terminal...
They say people are losing out.
I wonder if it is because they do not know the functionality.
Worked with tranzac, amibroker. quik.... went to 4, now I'm training for 5...
But I can tell you one thing: I remember the first three... I don't even want to remember.
It's like comparing a Zaporozhets with a Mercedes, though... ;0))
Worked with tranzac, amibroker. quik.... went to 4, now I'm training for 5...
But I can tell you one thing: I remember the first three... I don't even want to remember.
It's like comparing a Zaporozhets to a Mercedes, though... ;0))
Regarding scaling.
1 The value grid.
a) It's almost 4 years since the indicator, which is the same name as the Grid. I haven't checked it for a long time, really, it's not a question of writing (ordering) it "for yourself".
b) In my memory there was an attempt to discuss (Stringo with someone in the community) options for a more palatable version of the regular grid. I.e. one of the leading developers at least thought about it, it was not in the updates, so there must be some technical complexity.
2 By accident or not, but MT5 has introduced such a thing as chart scaling in points per bar. It is not clever yet (there are errors when moving/positioning a chart, for example), but on the whole it does not interfere with operation. But in some cases (just to "assess the situation at a glance") it is of no value.
Bottom line: the problems are not critical, you can partially solve them with indicator; to "make it better" you need critical mass of users (on forum and in CA). Sorry for the taffetology.
I am a client of Alor. Yes, Alor-trade's terminal isn't great, but the api is no worse and in some ways better. I have their trading software on its basis and you can write your own, which is no worse than MT5 in terms of execution. And you can draw the interface the way you like it. What seems to be never will be in MT5. As you can see, the attitude of the metaquotes is changing for us.
My way(kwik and the rest of the fukk don't count) is MT4... Tranzac... Alor sdk... MT5... with a high probability may continue on Alor_sdk, because they don't want to hear me here. Not only that, they think I'm a pest and insinuate that I'm not using my brain. But on sdk, my robot works fine, and the interface is comfortable, just the way I want it! Why cannot I make it like I want on MT5? It turns out I have not put my trust in it. What are the advantages of MT5?
It is good that I have not closed my account. Now I am more confident that I will not close it in Alora and I will not close it in Otkrytie...
I guess I'm getting dumber every year... I like mt-terminal less and less. Degrading, yeah... I started with it, but I don't want to continue. It's not nice to be spat on...
Renat:
It's surprising that such a huge advantage on an even playing field turns out to be unimportant to you. It's not just an excuse, it's a mega excuse on top of a host of other benefits.
They are certainly important, but not determinative! If you enter a position with limits, which I do, then all delays are negligible! Except for the stop lag!
Renat: I do not quite understand the idea of "changing the symbol on the chart", but I can guess:
- changing of a symbol on a chart is done in several ways: drag'n'drop by a symbol from market overview, Enter + set symbol's name, by dragging from history of deals or open positions to a chart
- If we're talking about linking the futures history, it's done by the broker on the server
Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of this possibility, although I studied the instructions. Apologies for the hit-and-run! I was looking for a window like the Quicksilver one:
Renat: It is not very good. It may only take a little bit of money.
This "trivia" pulls the poles of all the speed charachestics of MetaTrader 5. The formula is as follows: poor market understanding + poor speed = a drain! poor market understanding + good speed = a drain squared!
Charts are one of the fundamental things in the market. Exactly using it we are looking for patterns, trading levels, and trades behind which stops are set and which fail. Chart is a base, it's where we look for the beast.
It is the fundamental element, and it's more important than all the delays in Quick!
Renat: There will be a tape of trades, they have already written about it. You don't have to describe it so vehemently, and with outright insults too.
I can't read the whole forum, but I have come across your posts many times where it has been made clear that you can forget about the tape forever! "We will not make a tape deal. We have our own understanding of how and what should be done in mass-market trading platforms" www.mql5.com/ru/forum/11297#comment_459184 "You need to have a completely different level of understanding to make popular systems. We did it with forex and now we are doing it with exchanges. Given the speed of our development, new functionality will appear every 2 weeks. The trades feed is needed by a vanishingly small number of mass traders, strains servers, generates a lot of traffic, scales poorly and is sufficiently replaced by a tick stream analysis of the changes in the market." (https://www.mql5.com/ru/forum/11297/page4#comment_459230) So, that's where I made a clear point ))). I wasn't insulting anyone, I was just stating the facts! Yes, they are impersonal, but facts )))
Renat: The chart of the Open Interest (as well as everything else you want) may be drawn by the indicator. What you can't get in Quick Fix.
What kind of indicator is that? I do not know them! In Quick, you can display the OI chart on any chart, I have it on a scale with volumes! And there is a history of OI for the entire period of circulation of the futures. No need for any indicators! Here is a screenshot of my desktop.
Renat: The depth of the market depth is set by the broker. Now the available depth is 32 + 32 (64 levels). If it is not enough for the broker, he may ask to widen it easily.
You know very well that you cannot believe in the credibility of the 50x50 glass data, especially on low liquid markets, like MOEX. You just put up a figure of 50 for comparison, after all, so that 90% of the text that follows can be pegged.
You can't believe in principle ???? What are you talking about? Do you even trade yourself? (Except for a multi-lot position on the sber). On what is the position about the unreliability of the 50x50 market stack data based? The Exchange (on the FORTS market) by Plaza 2, broadcasts 3 streams of aggregate rates 5x5, 20x20, 50x50! There is no difference in them! NOTHING! And there cannot be! It's not legal! This is not a FOREX market! Moreover, on the Plaza 2, I can even build a non-aggregated cup at depth all the way down to the bars and beyond. And it will show the same thing as a 50x50 glass! And there is no dependence on the liquidity of the tool! What are we talking about? I thought I was talking to a specialist, and you don't know the basics! Shall I send you the link to the Plaza 2 specification?
The exchange broadcasts the same rates to all! It all depends on the speed of specific brokers and their hardware and software. Quick for example, artificially makes a delay on minute charts (and timeframes above) in 1 second, in order to save traffic. And the danyne on the market, tables of all deals are sent through the push protocol with a 100 ms pulling interval. Delays are inevitable there + load on servers is different. At the moment the broker OPENING broadcasts the glass on the Quick Fix 50x50, the glass on the MetaTrader 20x20. And there is no difference in numbers! There is only 300 ms delay between the rates, but there is no difference in the figures.
Worked with tranzac, amibroker. quik.... went to 4, now I'm training for 5...
But I can tell you one thing: I remember the first three... I don't even want to remember.
It's like comparing a Zaporozhets with a Mercedes, though... ;0))
It's exactly like me.
Compared to mt4 and mt5, everyone's a wreck.
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"Renat:The other day I restored an old working account in Otkritie from 2004, closed a longstanding Sberbank position in the plus, and then connected a MetaTrader 5 account. Working in MetaTrader 5 cannot be compared with QuickBooks - you just can't. In the 9 years that I've been occasionally watching and updating Quick, it hasn't gotten one iota out of the hammock where it waits for visitors, tempting them to have sex in a spacesuit and flippers. Trading in MT5 is easy, everything is at your fingertips, trading from charts, one click and from the cup. Although the glass is still uncomfortable, but in a fortnight we will have a normal high-speed scalper glass in the next build. We will also significantly upgrade trading with charts. Who wants to trade on regulated markets, try it.
Already tried it and the result for MetaTrader 5 is disappointing!
Before you poke fun at Quick, look at yourself in the mirror!
Yes, MetaTrader 5 is faster than Quick:
- the tumblr is on average 300ms faster than the Kwik tumblr;
- The charts are also faster by about a second;
- stop orders the MetaTrader server is much faster than the server of Kvik.
But all this is not a reason to switch from Quickswitch to less functional MetaTrader 5!
Quick, at its low speed, is a head over the top with functionality of MetaTrader 5! Starting with a trivial tool change on the chart, and ending with scaling, depth of market, OI, and a strip of trades.
What were you thinking when you entered the futures market, which expires 4 times a year and you didn't have a basic function to change the instrument on a specific chart? When I trade only futures on RTS Index I use 7 charts, located in a certain way on the screen! I have to close all the charts and set up my workspace again using templates every time I expire. I have to spend an hour to arrange all the windows in the right sequence, with the right size windows. And I know people who have 20 charts each! Where's the logic in that? This is not eternal currency pairs on FOREX!
And your lopsided grid and scaling scales? This is terrible! Instead of the standard convenient levels: 102000, 102100, 102200, 102300, etc., we see similar shit: 100550, 100910, 101270, 101630, etc. And all this crap is constantly changing to a new non-standard interval. Try to determine the price level "by eye" on a horizontal grid... your eye will break ))). And the vertical grid is just as miserable! The horizontal grid is 120 points, the vertical one - 8 minutes! Where else will you see it? The developers do not understand what the brain is doing when it is able to recognize graphic models! How should the brain be able to recognize repetitive graphical models if the coordinate system is constantly jumping!? Why should it measure the delta? In principle, in setting up a graph, there are some possibilities for manipulating the scale and fixing it, but they cannot fix the situation! The facts are that the charts in MetaTrader 5 are bullshit! Look at the same Quick - everything is done clearly! But why do I have to sign the date on each vertical line? It's already clear what day it is, but you can't see the time because of the date! I've seen the coolest markup on SmartTrade (broker I.T. Invest) charts - marking the ranges! I have never seen anything better than SmartTrade's charts. This is important, when the chart grid is static, then the brain has a constant reference point and identifying systematic processes is much easier. Finding patterns, inefficiencies, patterns - on a static grid, it's easy, fast and effective! For the brain to "catch" formations - you need a static coordinate system. In MetaTrader 5, the chart grid not only constantly jumps, it also takes different values of the step, a multiple of which - does not fit any standards.
And the lack of ribbon? I've read your comments saying that it will not be available, because only some people will need it and it will affect the servers. You do not understand who trades on the FORTS! This is the futures market, the next step in the career of a trader! They are green beginners in forex and stocks - they do not understand anything about trading! Many of them don't even know the tape exists! You can sell them anything! But not for those who are a step above in development! We can't sell it! After all, the flow of transactions (cache-flow) and the flow of orders (order-flow) determine the behavior of prices! Not indicators, not stochastics with bollinger lines, but the deal flow moves the price! And not a single intelligent trader will reject the fundamental thing in trading - the deal flow! And this flow is in Quick and we will never exchange it for your MetaTrader 5. Are you afraid of server load? Qoovikers are afraid of it too! That's why every Quickswitch login has the tick chart and all trades table (feed) disabled by default. But if you call the broker and ask to turn it on, the broker will turn on these streams for the particular user! It is this mechanism that allows you to reduce the load on the servers! What prevents you from doing the same - I do not know!
When trading on the FORTS, one of the fundamental parameters is the dynamics of Open Interest (OI)! And in Quick, you can output the graphs and use them to control the dynamics of buying or selling positions! MetaTrader has only one oscillating minute value in the charts. What kind of trading could we be talking about? Indicators? Indicators are a direct consequence of the illiteracy of beginners! And on the FORTS the guys are a little smarter! How can you come to the FORTS market and not make a chart for OM? This is not futures, this is futures and options!
And the depth of the market you have is 20x20! The broker OPEN on the Quick - the depth of the market is 50x50! Honestly, why should I, ditch Quick and go to worse terms? I'll just see even less! It's stupid to go from better to worse! Developers, come to your senses! These people are not stupid! And any adequate trader will not change their trading platform for less functionality. Besides QuickBooks there are other terminals. Why will Aichiinvest client turn down his broker with SmartX and SmartTrade to switch to MetaTrader 5 and go to OTKTTIE or BKS? AITInvest's terminals have an order of magnitude more functionality than MetaTrader 5. They also have a deep stack, OI, table of all trades, etc. What sane trader would do that? Why would a client of Alor+ broker give up his Alor Trade terminal and change their broker? Why would they do that? MetaTrader5 terminal has only two brokers, OTKRYTIE and BKS, and they have a limited number of clients and most of them will not support you! Yes, the representative of OTKRYTIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2rHjmR4Gj0 said that 1800 clients used the terminal, but it doesn't mean that they stayed and will stay to trade with them! I plugged it in, had a look, didn't like it and gave up. After half a year they cut me off! Then I reconnected, looked again - zero change, and then abandoned again! Since I don't have to pay membership fee for it, I use MetaTrader as a standby terminal in case of server failure on Quicksilver to close position opening. I don't trade via MetaTrader and am not going to until they reach the same level of functionality as on QuickBooks. As for the clients, you will hit the ceiling anyway because you will not succeed in attracting newcomers to the pcoa - newcomers want stocks, and you don't have them yet, and newcomers will use the Quick. I hope that the developers will come to their senses and start listening to customers, rather than their own preconceptions!
There are a couple of articles on this subject:
http://tradetrade.ru/programmi/2014/03/27/metatrader-5-za-i-protiv.html
http://tradetrade.ru/programmi/2014/05/05/epicheskiy-batl-qscalp-vs-easyscalp-quik-vs-metatrader-5-plaza-2-vs-polu-plaza-lenta-beritca-vs-polu-lenta-atas-footprint-vs-smart-footprint-matching-forts.html