Hidden divergence - page 8
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and yet, let's pause for a moment and clarify terms..... or think about them, at least
I've got a dozen windows open in my browser right now on this subject, and my head is a mess of terminology - whoever wants it, that's what they call it....
2. about my networking resources - try to find even the slightest mention of them.
sorry, plz, wrong - the case when someone said - you heard - and after a while you start to believe as your own :)
lna01 ...simple rule of thumb: convergence is divergence for downward trends. Why one phenomenon has two names is beyond me...
Another "ingenious" interpretation of the terms.
You don't understand, it's not an interpretation, it's what's drawn in the pictures. That is a fact. Look closely at your own drawing
If the concept of symmetry seems too complicated, just reverse any currency pair (take USDEUR instead of EURUSD for example) and make sure that divergences "become" convergences.
In the same thread another effect was discussed, namely the one shown in YuraZ's figure, and it has to be said that it deserves a separate term to a much greater extent than absolutely symmetric effects in opposite trend directions. Therefore instead of scholastic arguments we can simply consider covvergence to be a new term :). Since the prefix "co" is used to form terms no less frequently than the prefix "con".
With all due respect to the "common terminology" presented by s2101, Alexander Elder has a different opinion on this matter.
<<When prices rise to a new maximum and the MACD-histogram stops at a lower value, a Bearish Divergence is formed (Fig. 19). A smaller rise in the MACD-histogram indicates that the bulls are internally weak, in spite of high prices. When the bulls are exhausted, the bears are ready to take the initiative. A bearish divergence between the MACD-histogram and prices indicates the weakness of the market top. It gives a sell signal when most players feel the excitement of a breakout to new tops!
As long as prices are making lows and the MACD-histogram keeps falling lower, this confirms a downtrend. If prices have fallen to a new low and the MACD-histogram is not as low as before, a Bullish Divergence has occurred. It indicates that prices are falling inertia, the bears are weaker than they look, and the bulls are about to take the initiative. The bullish divergence between prices and the MACD-histogram indicates the strength in the market day. It gives a buy signal when most players are confused by a decline to a new low!
Alexander Elder "Fundamentals of Exchange Trading".
....
Personally, I like this terminology better!
Another thing is when the oscillator makes a lower low and the price stops at a higher value...
A full description of this kind of definition(solidarity with Mine and Elder's) is on "CROWFRE" in the "Hidden Divergences" thread.
If anyone finds a new kind (NOT the name) of divergence of price and oscillator readings, write! Very much want to see and study.
Please elaborate. What do you mean? Just because someone wrote about something somewhere doesn't mean that everyone has read it.
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Divergence (divergence of lines connecting extrema on the price chart and their corresponding extrema on the indicator chart) and
.....CoNvergence (convergence of lines connecting extrema on the price chart and their corresponding extrema on the indicator chart).
Good luck.
1.Pay attention to the first picture of the topic. If you put the oscillators on your monitor screen at the top not at the bottom of the chart, you have Divergence becoming Convergence and vice versa. So the question of terminology is determined by where you stand.
2.There is no measure of signal strength, - it is not - "I have them" and it is not wave analysis (see below)
3.The question is not about terminology, but about the essence - what does it give us for trading
Divergence-Convergence should be classified according to its practicality, namely
- A Divergence-Convergence (further called a Divergence-Con), signaling a reversal, is a Straight Divergence-Con, and it is risky to trade (its definition is repeatedly described here)
- The Dive-Con signaling the continuation of the trend is a "Latent" Div-Con, and it allows you to work accurately in the trend (GRAAL, and we wondered Batter) and often defines the 2nd and the 4th wave.
- "Hidden" appearing after "Straight" is not the most accurate signal.
As always, the issue of exit is much more important.
One of the ways out is the appearance of a Direct Divergence.
Visually, the Straight and Hidden is a correction displayed on the inertia indicators, but
Direct occurs when the acceleration slows down and Hidden occurs when the acceleration increases.
I WILL DELETE THIS POST AGAIN AFTER THE INTERESTED PARTIES HAVE READ IT. If it's all right with those present.
YuraZ wrote (a) >>you could clarify what you call latent.
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the wording of the title term of the thread:
- "Hidden" Div-Con on a bullish trend is when the troughs on the indicator are deeper than the troughs on the price chart.
- "Hidden" Div-Con on a bearish trend is when the tops on the indicator are higher than the tops on the price chart.
Hence the Entry rule sounds like this: After identifying the Hidden D-Con and ending of a correction, enter in the direction of the previous Fractal. We hold the position until the first new Fractal appears. We define the fractals by V. Kelasev's methods.
The tops-troughs in the price chart and in the indicator may not coincide, but it depends on the type and parameters of the applied indicators.
Depending on which chart you determine as master and which one as slave and, again, on the location of the oscillator - in one case we can talk about convergence, and in the other - about divergence.
... I suggested earlier to interchange the oscillator and the chart in the first picture. And because there are many platforms where you can put indicators above the price chart, the users of such platforms will call divergence and convergence differently than those who put oscillators below (excluding indicators like Priliv).
And we need to define this concept unambiguously. That's why I suggested what's above, so that confusion in terminology doesn't lead to confusion in terms.
Try to put the oscillator from above in your figure and your convergence will become a divergence.
... We may not know if there is a trend or not, but Hidden D-C signals (rather than executes) that the movement on the next segment after the top-trough will continue in the opposite direction from the top-trough. And confirms the direction of the main trend.
... There is always a correction after an impulse. It has different magnitude, so the exit is relevant, if we work only on the recovery after the impulse. Or we catch the 3rd wave, sometimes the 5th or b, sometimes the 2nd correction of the 3rd wave. Since the correction after the impulse is inevitable, and its energy was not enough to gain new heights, then such conditions for the market at the moment are true and the impulse is confirmed (Fisher, Miner). The broken D-K is often visualized during an impulse, as well as in reversal absorption models (it can be determined numerically by correlation of candle bodies to the ranges or visually by methods of V.Kelasev or by the Conditional Side Movement model - V.Zverkov, etc., etc.)
... The value of the Hidden D-K depends on the type and settings of the indicator. The value of the Hidden D-Q can be determined numerically in % as a difference in height between two nearest equally oriented tops (troughs) having previously determined the coordinate ratio (on the price and indicator chart) of three fractals that include these tops (troughs).
I will add more information about waves. The wave analysis should be practically applied on timeframes M1-M10 and H8-W1. And it is very essential.
And one more thing - we should not consider the Hidden D-Q as a signal between 23.00 and 9.30 MSK (we simply exclude this interval in our Expert Advisor).
On a side note to the divergence indicators. Sergei, can you include MA1 in Priliv_s ?
A little later. I'm going through a very busy period right now.
I have to return part of my deleted post (thought it was read by all )
I WILL DELETE THIS POST AGAIN AFTER READING THE INTERESTED PARTIES. If those present don't mind.
against
One of the key posts.
2.there is no measure of signal strength, - it is not so - "i have them" and it is not wave analysis
can you elaborate on this point?
I am not completely satisfied with it,
Man (s2101) explained, chewed it up, and put it in his mouth......
I had only mentioned normalisation when the Man immediately cut it short :(((
it's worth comparing
there's also this